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Washed Up Emo
#103 - Conor Murphy (Foxing, Smidley)
June 19, 2017 Tom Mullen

#103 - Conor Murphy (Foxing, Smidley)

June 19, 2017

Tom Mullen

Our guest for episode 103 is the amazing singer for Foxing and his new side project called Smidley. The self-titled album is one of my favorites of 2017. Conor was one of the most open book guests I've ever had on the podcast. A voice you need to hear and see live. Thanks for supporting!
Our guest for episode 103 is the amazing singer for Foxing and his new side project called Smidley. The self-titled album is one of my favorites of 2017. Conor was one of the most open book guests I've ever had on the podcast. A voice you need to hear and see live. Thanks for supporting!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1:0:13Welcome to episode

Speaker 2:0:14103 of the washed up female podcast. I'm Tom Bowen from washed up emo.com. Been away for a little bit. I understand it's been a month or so. I apologize.

Speaker 3:0:26New Job. And then I moved, which is insane in New York City if you've ever done that. I'm so. I apologize. And then also a father's day was yesterday and it wasn't too fun to think about, um, recently lost my father to cancer and it is something that's been with me forever but also dealing with and I got a lot of friends out there and people that have dealt with it. And guess what helps it music. So back into the podcast, back into music. That's what's important. This episode we had Connor Murphy of foxing and middly and amazing soul took time out to speak with us about boxing and also his new side project Smidley, which will make its way to the top 10 of my top 10 of 2017. Thanks for listening. Thank you for supporting from the site bearing with elapses. When life gets in the way, these episodes will never stop until we're interviewed everyone about this

Speaker 2:1:20special genre. We all love. So here we are, episode 103 of the wash deputy will podcast with conner murphy of foxing and Smidley.

Speaker 4:2:38Hello. How are you? I'm pretty good. I'm crazy right now, but I'm excited to talk to you. My first stuff was all from my parents, like my whole family who I still respect the shit out of their music tastes. My parents and my brother and sister, like every one of them has a, like a totally different set of bands that they love. But like all of this collectively, like, I mean collectively they make up my favorite bands. But like, uh, I have no original bands of actually feeling and highlight that they don't. Um, but like, so my sister was really into like nirvana and like modest mouse and the pixies, uh, she's five years older than me. My brother's 10 years older than me and he was like a giant weezer weird Al, uh, uh, replacements a rentals, like, you know, a much more. Like I don't really divo and shit.

Speaker 4:3:44He's a, he's definitely a, like me, my sister has a kind of a diluted version of what he loves tonight and even more watered down version of what both of them love. I fucking love the way I like lineage goes because it's like my brother was like obsessed with Nirvana and then my sister like love Nirvana and like a sort of liked foo fighters and then I just love to fighters. It's just like a weird, a degradation in music trickled down to me first baseline first, like musical, like rock musical thing that I've ever learned was at the baseline of cannon ball by the breeders.

Speaker 5:4:32Did you start playing bass because your sister did?

Speaker 4:4:34Oh totally. One hundred percent ge play based because my brother did.

Speaker 5:4:37Wait a minute. You guys have three bass players in your family?

Speaker 4:4:43Worked my brother, everything comes from him. He set the page 100 percent with everything. So my brother played trombone, uh, from the, from eight years old until senior year of high school. Uh, and then when he was in high school, started a band, a fucking kickass band. That just sounded like a, I don't know, it sounded like a better, like green albums of laser. It was so good. Uh, and then, uh, my sister played a clarinet from eight years old because my brother played trombone and she stuck with it until like junior year of high school or dropped it before then. But uh, started playing bass because he started playing bass. Then I do the same thing. I started playing trumpet when I was eight, went through high school and everything and then the whole time was also learning base. So it's like I did all of it because my sister did it all. She totally did it all because my brother did it all. But that's like, like I said, I, I, uh, my whole life, I just, I feel like I don't have original thoughts or motives on anything I do. Uh, but I actually really love that because it's like kind of feel like everything I do is like, just because it's either what my brother and sister have done or what I think they might do.

Speaker 5:6:16There was an openness to share what they were doing with you. And as the youngest, you know, kind of getting to have it all,

Speaker 4:6:22oh, 100 percent beyond music, like tv and movies and stuff like that. It's just everything I like is just what they liked when I did this. I'm the Smidley projects, like every single song is basically like an attempt to get them to like the songs because like with boxing, you know, I'm not calling shots on anything we do with that thing. It's like a complete group decision. Um, which I think makes it unique because so democratic. But with this snidely thing, it was just like, okay, what I've always wanted to do is just make the songs that right and Cara, Cara will listen to and like the. And so that's why I named it Smidley. That's the name of our dog, our family dog that died. And uh, and yeah, and it's like it worked. That was the coolest thing. My brother put out a split with me. Uh, that was the first release for snugly

Speaker 5:7:25what sounds or what things were clicking and being like, I am fucking 10 more songs in my head right now.

Speaker 4:7:31I have the unlimited amount of those types of songs in my head because I just don't, we don't play anything like that for boxing. It's like we, our goal with faxing stuff is always to like innovate something to like make a song that doesn't sound like any other song. That's always our number one goal. Uh, same with lyric stuff. It's like impossible to make something that's not inspired by other things. So we always try to like call ourselves out when we sound, when we're sounding too much like another band. But with this band, with snidely stuff, it was like 100 percent just like I just want to play the songs that I listened to, you know, like, uh, like Pinkerton, like I just want to play songs like that or like doolittle,

Speaker 5:8:25I've listened to record a shitload. I hear a couple of things that you might be like, that's crazy, but I hear band of horses a lot.

Speaker 4:8:32Oh, crazy. You know, it is weird about that. A, uh, the last song on the album, uh, everybody in the live Snipley band makes fun of me because it sounds like exactly like the chord structure to that funeral side,

Speaker 5:8:47which is fine. That's fine to do. Yeah, totally. I love that song. When I was listening to what I was like, this is totally you in complete control and having no one else tell you yes or no,

Speaker 4:9:02that's exactly what it is. I mean it's like, I mean like lyrically, like that, I just collectively with lyrics like me and Josh have written the lyrics for our first two records. Um, and then on this new album we're doing it even more so collectively. Like today even we were working on songs and we're just all sitting down and tearing our hair out, trying to figure out things very much like some kind of monster if you've seen that.

Speaker 5:9:39Yes, I have

Speaker 4:9:42eric because Eric brought up a line and we said my lifestyle determines my desk. Oh. So that's what we're doing on this one. But like, lyrically, for this piddly stuff, I like the first time that I felt like I could really write about like even drugs for the first time, which is weird to want to write about drugs. I guess I'm not like a, I'm not super into drugs, but I been a much a, been enough of a part of my life where it was like, okay, it's time to kind of write about some of the stuff. And like I, we a but we did an interview where you talking about the pixies and how awesome they are. And um, he, you know, the entire reason why that band is incredible is because they're so fucking loud and the saucer so, so, so soft. Like they just like this insane shift in dynamics all the time. And uh, and that's always stuck with me really hard. Like I saw that when I was probably like 15 and I'm just always like, that's, you got to do that. But this is the first time that I was making songs that were like straight up. Like, you know, the same instruments that the pixies are using, like guitars and a bass and drums, vocals where it's like, okay, let's actually do that. So to me like under the table is like a Pixie song. You're gonna know that doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 5:11:25Being able to do that and have that freedom. Was there any nervousness of like, oh shit, it's just me.

Speaker 4:11:31Yeah, totally. I mean every, every band that I played in, there's this thing where it's like everybody's got to be doing something all the time, uh, like it's weird to not have a part for a section of a song, uh, especially if that part is longer, like 30 seconds long. Um, and I think with this it was like I'm the only one that needs to actually make a part here. So for a song, like it doesn't tear me up. It was like a, you know, I added a bunch of other shit to it and then everything that I added I was just like, none of this is actually accomplishing anything. Like the only thing that actually matters here, like, you know, the guitar and the vocal part a, but that's something that I don't think like we would ever do for foxing, um, like we would never have an acoustic and vocal song, um, just because it's Kinda like, I think as a band we would look at that and say like, well, what, like, how are we pushing something here? There's not like, you know, uh, I just don't think we would trust ourselves enough to do something like that. Um, which I think is a good thing for foxing. It's like, I don't think, uh, that's like putting all your eggs in one basket for us. Um, but for me personally, it's just kinda like, yeah, that just makes sense. It should be one or two songs like that. Like that milkshake song is another one that's just guitar and vocals. Men eventually like a Mellotron.

Speaker 6:13:13When did you,

Speaker 4:13:15it was, um, series over the course of like a, a year or so. Um, but what would happen is like every, every one of those songs, I'm going to eventually released the demo versions of all of them. Uh, and they're very, very similar. They're, you know, horribly recorded. Uh, but that's just because we're recording it. Um, but they're very, very similar to like the final thing. Um, and they would all pretty much be done in like a day, a week each song. And it's because like when nobody is telling me that's cool or that's bad, it's just kind of like I record the thing and then that's, that's just the part forever. Like that just there's no reason to change it. I don't think I added it any of these lyrics more than like twice a. yeah. And like, granted they're not great lyrics and I think of this record is like not a remarkable record in any way. Um, but I, I do, it is a record that I like to listen to a. and I liked the song so much and I think that's like, that's been, like the running goal with the entire project is like, not to overthink anything at all. And just to totally like do it based on a what I actually liked to listen to and

Speaker 6:14:50exactly. And so most all my brother.

Speaker 2:14:53Just kidding. No, that's, that's it. I mean like that,

Speaker 4:14:57present it, uh, when I, when we go and play these songs live, it's like a, I remember listening to Jefferson airplane with my whole family and everybody just like this is the greatest music. And that's exactly the reason why we have a, A. Lena are a singer. The other singer in snidely. Uh, she is, uh, she, no, she didn't record on the record at all, but like live, we're both going to be singing a, it's just because of Jefferson airplane, uh, played like ultima with two singers. The entire reason for it. And it's because it will be fun, you know.

Speaker 2:15:39And you collaborated with a few folks from Dr Dog, a band from tiger strong cam. What individually did they bring? What songs did they work on? What was that feeling of bringing someone into your circle in your, your songs and having their input?

Speaker 4:15:58Those are like my favorite people that I've met while touring and when I contacted all of them as like, I'm going to be in Philly, I'm making this record, here it is. I send them all the demos and I was just like, you know, if you want to play on one of these or all of these, let me know. It'd be awesome to just hang out. And even if you don't want to plan anything, I would love to see you all in Philly. And so from them it was like a err, a slip from Dr Dodd and Lithuania. He immediately was just like anything you want on it. Uh, so I asked them to play drums, which he's the greatest drummer, uh, you'll, you'll ever see now you played in the Adrian belew trio and like this just incredible. And you wouldn't even realize it from the record because it's like, you know, he's playing my drum parts.

Speaker 4:16:59He's not really playing like peak peak Eric Slick. Uh, but he, uh, he just brought so much to this. It's like any time I would say, um, I mean the first thing he was like, he just ran through everything within a day. The only took one day to do all the drums for it. It was like a, it's not like he was working on the songs tirelessly before. He just kinda like pick them all up. Um, and anytime I would just say something like, uh, in the end here, can you just go a little wild, like a, just throw in a bunch of Phil's. He would do something that would just blow my mind to the point where I would change, uh, like a baseline around it or a guitar part around it. It was just like, he's an like an endless well of a, just like incredible rhythm and just like total, like innovation in drums, which is weird.

Speaker 4:18:03It's like you don't really think about that too much until you encounter like a really great drummer because I feel the same exact way about John in boxing. Like he does the exact same thing, but yeah, that Eric was, is the backbone of the entire record. I'm Jill Rinehart who produced the record, played guitar on most of it. I'm just like, retract all my guitar and a man. He is such an incredible guitarist and the production is also just like I've said, it's a him many, many times that other people, it was the best two weeks of my entire life as far as music goes, like better than any better than any tour or any writing or any recording. It was just like, everyday was just like, I was excited to wake up and start working on it again, which is the first time that's ever happened to me.

Speaker 4:19:04Um, he's just, he's, he's one of the best people I've ever met and uh, and just puts in the work in but also doesn't stress anyone out. I'm a very anxious, stressed out person all the time. And uh, and he is just absolutely the best person I could ever work with because he is, he's like a surfer, a like an actual surfer. He acts like it is just a very laid back but has just so many ideas. Uh, and he's just so. He's so relaxed about everything that he does, like he'll, he'll throw in like the greatest idea for a, like a guitar part in the song, uh, and act like it's no big deal and just be like, I don't know if you'd like it. Here it is, and be like, perfect man. But he has no attachment to his brilliant ideas, which is so awesome because I could just say like, I don't really like that.

Speaker 4:20:06You'd be like, cool, I'll try this one. I love that. Um, ben probably worked a more than anyone else from a bench, from a tiger's jaw. Um, he only played the guitar, the lead guitar and Solo for a dead retrievers. Um, but he sent me like drafts of it and I was just working on it like for weeks before it totally prepared, which I don't even think he really had to. Uh, he's a good enough guitars. Just come in and just riff. But uh, but yeah, he prepared so much for it. Um, uh, dominic, Angela a is one of the most talented multi instrumentalist I've ever met. Um, he plays in a me without you please base in that, but he's also a recorded, um, on like a Kendrick Lamar song and produced for like low b and uh, yeah. And he plays in Lithuania. He's also got a solo record that's just astounding.

Speaker 4:21:20Um, and he, so he played a lead on a fuck this and I'm just, uh, all I said to him was I wanted the lead guitar to sound like a dinosaur junior and uh, eat straight up, played like a, just like the most dinosaur junior guitar part of all time is just like perfect, like not, you know, not a rip off or anything, but like totally exactly what I wanted to sound like. Oh, in cam played a saxophone on a fuck this. I'm just like a, he was just like moving around and uh, we got uh, I brought my friend John, uh, heredia who plays in the live summit, the band with me and he brought like just this giant jar of, uh, like cannabis, coconut oil, um, that he made. So he just was his like job during the whole thing was to basically just try to get, this isn't a job I gave him, but attempt to get like everybody that entered that room like extremely, like uncomfortably high.

Speaker 6:22:38Exactly.

Speaker 4:22:38We haven't went down with cam would just, you know, uh, like boys out of his mind and just like riffing on facts and then stumbled upon this part that sounded exactly like a soul man. Um, you know, like in Seoul man where it's like that, uh, and I just like, I just played it back to him on piano. Uh, we came up with the, if you listen to it, it's like totally not like a soul song at all. But like that little thing if you took it out of context is like the most, uh, like seventies soul, James Brown part of all time. It's awesome.

Speaker 6:23:27Soul to soul should be your t shirt. Yeah, that's been the album then I couldn't think of anything. So he titled We can blaze really

Speaker 2:23:46good look. I know it's coming out in a couple of weeks, but I was talking to tom and figured it out. I'm sure he would love. I introduced, we introduced each other. When did you, when did you realize that, uh, you could sing or that it was something you'd like to do and you were comfortable doing it

Speaker 4:24:15three different times, spread out a first time. I realized I could say something again, Eric from a faxing who I didn't say before, but eric is a giant part of my music taste to like a, he's a year older than me and has always felt like is 20 years older than me. A lot like, like my older brother in the sense that hey, you know, look up to him and want him to like what I make. So we had this song and it was like a finished song. Like he was 13 at this time and even then he was writing full songs. I'm a composed for like guitar and Bass and drums. He would write them all on like guitar pro. He's always just been this way. I've always looked up to him because he's always just been like a really, really developed a writer for everything.

Speaker 4:25:33I'm to the point where he doesn't leave that much for you to need to do with a song, like he'll write an entire part for you and then it's just up to you to Kinda like, you know, make it your own. Um, and he still does that with boxing. It's like, you know, all of our music is basically just a, like Eric's kind of a mind at work. Um, but anyway, in that band, uh, we all realized, okay, the song is done and it's, it sounds great, but we need one of us needs to sing and for that matter, like one of us needs to sing in his band in general. Uh, so we each, um, we, uh, we decided all of us would like go to different parts of the house I think. Or maybe it was like we all went home and then came back the next day. And like everybody writes their own lyrics and everybody attempts to sing even if you know, you suck. Like I did a. So everybody did that. And then we listened back to all of them in mine was honestly just the least bad. It was just like the least

Speaker 6:26:48horrible,

Speaker 4:26:50said it out loud, like suck the least. So let's, let's go with this one. It's a, you know, pretty rough. Real lyrics were hard to swallow. They were like, they were about like global warming, but from like a 12 year old's perspective, uh, uh, like the most surface level, like inconvenient truth had recently come out. And I was just like, yeah, this is, I know all about this shit. I don't even think I had seen the movie. Um,

Speaker 6:27:23of course not, of course not what I. So

Speaker 4:27:29that's where it went. And from there it just kinda like they, all it was, was I would write the most cryptic. We're excited, possibly right. I would have an idea in mind, but they don't try as hard as I possibly could to just like make them impossible to understand a, like use bad grammar or um, just like metaphors on top of metaphors replaced by like a metaphor that just didn't exist in the first place. And it was because they all would make fun of the weird so that, or what. But I just didn't want them to make fun of, like, and they would make fun of my voice and I just didn't want them to like, criticize something I actually cared about. So it would be like, you know, uh, like one of the songs that we wrote back then was about like my friend that died, uh, like when I was like 11.

Speaker 4:28:21And uh, and I knew they would still make fun of it, like it would still be something really like mocking my voice or something. So it's just like, not even, there's no way you could possibly understand what it's about. Um, so I did that for a long time and even like the first year or two of Foxing, I was still doing that. Um, but that was the first time with boxing, at least, that I started to actually like the way I was singing and like the lyrics I was writing. Um, and I think that was mostly because I was also the first time that I sang without a base, uh, which was like a huge thing. I felt so uncomfortable.

Speaker 6:29:04There's no, there's nothing for you to hide behind even though it's only a piece of wood. That's plenty.

Speaker 4:29:11I, the reason why I started playing trumpet in boxing was because it was like I told them like guys, like I need something to hold or I will start crying on stage. Like I'm not, I just cannot like dance or move around or anything like that is you're asking way too much for me to try to do that. Um, and uh, and uh, while we were playing our shows, um, for like our, our first few and our first tour, uh, until the point where I started, like, I, then I started picking up the trumpet from the case and just like holding the mic, like, you know, uh, like Matt Berninger or something. Uh, and then eventually I would start taking the mic off of the stem is like getting a little bit more comfortable with kind of like, I would just, you know, I have my bath to an audience, but I have the mic off the stand.

Speaker 4:30:08It'd be like screaming into it, like hunched over. Uh, and then eventually, like slowly I just started to like kind of turn around a little bit more and then when people started knowing our lyrics it was like, okay, well now this is the point where I am 100 percent comfortable with like, uh, with you singing and the words I'm writing because people are like not only hearing the songs but they're also like memorizing them. So there's no real, like I still don't think I have a great voice, but these people, they're like, I should trust that these people wouldn't be doing this just to make fun of you, you know?

Speaker 2:30:48So that, that took a long time.

Speaker 4:30:50Oh totally. I mean like a, like a little under 10 years probably of singing in bands and I would always just do it. But like I, I just always fucking hated it. I just couldn't, I cannot stand to sing in front of people. Just made me so upset.

Speaker 2:31:07And so it took, I mean, for you to have that moment where you're like, Holy Shit, people are seeing rory back at me, you know, or that's probably fucking blew your mind.

Speaker 4:31:17Yeah, totally. I mean, that was a, it wasn't until after our first two tours because we toured a without an album, I'm like, you know, full on, kind of like a, like for week three or four week tours before we like actually put out a record of the lucky stars. Um, and until then it was like we had like a it, but like, uh, people didn't give a shit about it. Nobody knew him. Uh, and that especially that's the most embarrassing thing in the universe. So like, you know, try to play these songs and like different cities, like you don't even get to go home afterwards after you get embarrassed that hard, uh, you know, in front of like maybe like five people that are like just talking to each other, drinking a beer in the corner or something like that. I mean, like, that broke me down. There's a lot of times on those tours where I was just like, I got, I have to give up on this, like, this is stupid.

Speaker 4:32:27But yeah, that's the first couple tours after count your lucky stars, uh, put out the record. It was just like, fuck the first time, you know, like people would come up to us after sets and be like, hey, that was cool. But that was the first time that during a show I would look out and people were singing along or like crying. That was like the most insane thing in the world and be like our first tours, uh, after the record came out, it would be like, I would be singing to somebody that was like crying. It was just like this. That's so amazing. Like I just don't know. We kind of make fun of it now. Like, uh, you know, like, uh, the fact that like a, I think a lot of kids that are kind like um, they go to a show and they'll tweet something like, oh my God, I'm going to go and cry at the brand new show or something or whatever. But really like the first time you see somebody like crying a while you're like, playing that song is just like, so fucking cool. That's like, you know, it feels weird to say it out loud, but you're like, goddamn that, you know, it's like you made something that somebody gives a shit about enough to like shed tears. That's awesome.

Speaker 5:33:50I think, you know, this, obviously I didn't bring up the word email, but the site, the website and the podcast is called that I wrote, I attribute that to more of like this euphoric moment of you're enjoying it so much that it's, it's bringing you to tears and it's not 100 percent and it's not this. There was a moment where I had to wait in line two hours in like negative 10 degrees that and I saw Jimmy eat world play cbgbs and when I got in they were in like the epic part of, for me this is heaven and all I did, I just started like, I like lost it, but I was like, it's, it's, it's, it's the experience, it's the sound, it's the memories. It's all those things like, and for someone to do that for you guys. And I think there's this joke of sort of, you know, oh, it's, you know, a bunch of emo kids and they're all going to cry.

Speaker 5:34:43It's like, no, no, it's actually not just like this. Like outwardly it's more personal, like it's not, it's not like I tweeted or didn't even have twitter back then, but if I did, I'm not going to tweet that. It's like, no, that was between me and the band and I felt something in that kid felt something with your band and you, your lyrics and maybe that helped him that day. And so it's not a sad or a negative thing. It's, it's, it's, it's, I think it's happy and I don't know if you agree or not. That's, it's not a sad, not sad.

Speaker 4:35:18No, no, no. Like for instance, I mean my favorite, the greatest show I've ever been to my entire life. I was a giant fan of broken social scene.

Speaker 5:35:32A kid

Speaker 4:35:33still still am still like my feet. There's like a drum parts on the Smidley records that are 100 percent lifted

Speaker 6:35:41from a song Sunday. You forgot it in people. We will let them know just what's that? I said we're going to let them know. We're going to let them know. I'm just kidding. I'm telling you, I'm going to tell the band. You're going to tell on me. Just I know.

Speaker 4:36:01No, no, that shit. Well, they still like, to me like the greatest band of all time, like the coolest people ever. I was like, you know, you know Lou Reed and David Bowie kill, you know, go fuck himself. Like broken social scene is like, you know, the burst of cool. Like these are the coolest people that have ever existed but I never saw them live. Still have never seen them live, but they do, you know, the band do make say, think

Speaker 6:36:31yes.

Speaker 4:36:32Yeah. So okay. So they were coming through town and I'm playing a free show at uh, at uh, St Louis University. And I had never heard them before but eric was like, Hey, uh, uh, do may say things coming through. Um, Charles Spearin from broken social scene is in the band and uh, and that was just like cool. And we got there, uh, and I remember even like, even when we're at the show, I'd still, I'd never heard them and I saw Charles Spearin, uh, walking around and I was just like, Oh, I bet he sings in this band. That'll be so cool. And the narratives, like, no, they're an instrumental band. Yeah,

Speaker 4:37:20most left the show because it was, I just don't care to see this at all. But it ended up being the greatest show I've ever seen in my entire life. And it is one of a three times that I've ever cried at a concert. The other two being like the pixies and secret roughs. Uh, and it's just the reason why I was crying was not at all because they playing like a sad song or anything. It was because they had such a, uh, like enveloping sound in such a such restraint that like when they busted into the song, the universe, I'm like the second song on a, uh, uh, you, your history and rest. When they busted into that song, it was after like probably 10 minutes of like the quietest sounds in the world. Um, and they were even like shaking keys around into a microphone and they busted into that song and I just started weeping.

Speaker 4:38:29I was like, I've never heard this before, but this is like the greatest sound I could ever imagine. And that stuck with me forever. Like that's. And so when I see people that, uh, like cried during a show or telling me after a show that they were like, you know, Oh yeah, he cried during this song. I, part of me is just kind of like, okay, cool, like, you know, uh, something to tweet about a for you. But um, but then this other part of me is just like, no, you know, what you just had because it's usually like a, you know, pretty much a child, like a 12 year old kid. But I'm like, I was like 13 or 14 when I saw that happen. And it was like the most impactful thing that has ever happened to me with music. It was just like, you know, like completely changed the way I thought about music.

Speaker 4:39:24And so I think when I see people do that, even if that's not having the same effect at all, I'm just like in my head I'm like, this could be doing something for you that changes your life and that even if it's just the chance that it could make this entire thing, the, you know, all of the bullshit and all of the touring relentlessly and the, you know, no money at home. Like all that stuff. The relationships that end because of these tours, like mix, all of that shit. Where is it? Because it's just like you could have maybe changed your life. I don't know.

Speaker 5:40:00I think that's really important that you said that because what if that show you pointed at him and made fun of him or I'm not saying you, but maybe something happened that, that negative effect of the show, a scene. Maybe he was going to be in a band. I mean that's sort of staying positive and that sort of understanding a scene and understanding what you, what you're doing. You know, you're part of something. And there's some times, you know, you go to shows and maybe their first show and they're not maybe sure of what's going on or what things to do and when you've, someone's that comfortable to be able to do that at your show is, is, is a great feeling and I hope it happens more. Um, but it's that whole, I guess that misnomer of like, oh, someone's crying at a show and entertainment weekly's responses. That's an emo kid crying when it's actually, that's nothing to do with it. It's, it's just, it's just about the music. Not anything else.

Speaker 4:41:01Totally crazy.

Speaker 5:41:08But you know what I mean, like overall, like anything like that. Like anytime someone's like crying, it's like, oh, their email or the fucking Kylo ren from star wars just because he's a little sad in the movie. It's like, no, he's not nothing.

Speaker 4:41:23It's weird. Like you just completely owned it. Think we've talked about this before, but like you, your podcast and your website called washed up email, it's like you are just dead spitting in the face. Anyone that would ever say something like that?

Speaker 5:41:45Yeah, I mean it's a, I mean, it's a joke, it's like you're washed up like, yeah, totally. But it's like, it's kind of like endearing to, it's like, you know, it's okay. You're a little older, you know? Oh yeah, totally.

Speaker 4:41:59Like I think I can't, I am not. How old are you now?

Speaker 5:42:03I am 38,

Speaker 4:42:0538. I am too young to except like the emo stuff, like accepted the labeling of it all and I'm too young for a lot of shit that I, you know, I, I always liked to try to my, my dream like a baby I feel like is to be like five years older than I actually am. I'm like constantly in a state of like, like right now I'm just like man, 30. That's the year for me.

Speaker 4:42:40Good. I was like 21. That's the year for me. Uh, the thing though is that I just don't, I'm just too, I'm too naive to realize actually that like the emo stuff is just like with all the labeling of it, it's just like a phase of society that passes just as soon as you know, all the other ones have. Like I've watched it happen so many times before even like a different form of Emo, emo used to mean something else you used to mean cutting your wrists. Uh, or like, uh, or having like swoopy hair, um, or like basically like, you know, like South Park's got the whole, like Goth and emo thing. Like uh, it used to be that. And like now it's like a different thing. It's Kinda like how we, how I used to think of like Indie rock kids, uh, and like I think the two are just kind of like melded into this weird thing. But I'm still like when somebody will say like a, like, you're, you're my favorite emo bands. I'm just like, well fuck, I wish you would just say your favorite indie rock band or just your favorite band. And generally something like, I just wish you wouldn't say email. Um, and I think that's so weird. Like I, I just, I don't know why I care so much.

Speaker 5:44:05Yeah. The word is, is, is always hated unless you're making thousands of dollars deejaying around the country. Um, yeah. I feel like that's the only time that you actually liked the word. No one's ever liked the word. Everyone I've interviewed has said no, they fucking. I mean even Ian Mci fucking hates the word so everybody across the board does. I think it's, I think some bands maybe then I was gonna ask you like, were you bummed that I was like supporting you because sometimes it leads people down a certain path, but also what was happening at that time. And I wanted to hear like there was so much good music and the thing is like you guys could have fit in 96 and you could have fit in 1990 or 89, like thea static. And the way that you were projecting the sound was so honest. And that's what I connect with.

Speaker 5:44:59That's what I think when I first saw you guys, whatever that show was we were talking about earlier, it was just like, this is coming out so clean and honest. It's no preconceived. There was no like, we're going to fucking do this breakdown right here. It's like, yes, I know bands can do that and be formulaic, but I like it when it's raw. I like it when there's this feeling to it, this gut, and that's what I heard from you guys in that reminded me of seeing the get up kids for the first time or seeing a y or whatever it is like. Yeah, totally. So you guys, did you guys be like, fuck, they think we're an emo band? No.

Speaker 4:45:44Yeah, we're just straight up just trying to make good in our opinion. The very first songs we made, we were just like super into our initial thing that we said with the band was that we wanted it to be folk music with a drug that was always the number one thing we we're trying to make. Um, and uh, when we started making the songs, that's what we thought we were doing. We thought we were emulating a, you know, a, a mog lie or a, I don't know, like a, uh, like nay, nay many posts drag then that's what we're trying to sound like mixed with. Uh, you know, I don't know, I think that the biggest thing that made it actually ended up being, you know, is that we all like death cab for Cutie and I think like that we didn't realize that like what we were making was actually sitting in to this like, yeah, the world

Speaker 5:46:57it was happening at that moment.

Speaker 4:46:59Yeah. We had no idea because also we weren't going out of town. We weren't paying attention to count your lucky stars or anything like that. Uh, and we were, um, I think once we started touring the way that we did it was, and this was just like, this is the advice that I've always given to every kid that's ever asked me, how do I start being in a band or you like trying to gain any kind of success in music is that we would host band was at our houses and we would just, you know, like any, any touring bands who, no matter who it was, if we liked the music at all, we would ask them if they wanted to stay at our house and cook some food and beer and stuff. Um, and uh, and those are the bands that we would ask favors from whenever we are trying to book our first tour.

Speaker 4:47:57Uh, so like, uh, some of those bands were like, you blew it a Joie de v, a empire empire. Uh, who else? Uh, you'll live who, uh, don't think there are still making music, a tiny moving parts. And one of them, uh, there's just these dams that we were just like, you know, we didn't get to know him really well. Prawn was another band, we get to know them really well and then when we were going out on our first few tours, we would just get all those people up and say, hey, we want to come to a Fargo, will you play with us or can we stay at your house at least, uh, and they would all say, yeah. And then, um, we ended up playing shows with an empire empire and that's Keith was like, took a liking to it. And this was just like, Hey, I'll put out this record if you guys are down with it.

Speaker 4:48:56We're like, yes, 100 percent. Um, so that's, that's how it happened in, like, because of that. And again, no idea that we sounded anything like that. These other bands, we just, this is all just music to us. There's like no business side of any of it was just like complete diy fuckery. Um, and uh, and then, you know, all of a sudden we're on a record label with all these bands that are like undeniably emo music. And like one of our first tours was with a first, like actual tours was with Warren Franklin. Uh, just, uh, again, undeniably emo musician

Speaker 5:49:39music recently. How is it? I like it. I like it. He's like asking me my opinion and it's been, it's been really sweet. I've actually loved that. He sort of brought me into the process of him making a record.

Speaker 4:49:53He's a great guy and we played us his backing band on that tour.

Speaker 5:49:59Oh No.

Speaker 4:50:01Yeah. Funny story about that tour actually. It was more in Franklin in football, et Cetera. And so we would play as Warren's backing band and he wrote it are our real shitty band, our first tour van. Um, so he rode with us and we have played in your basement and play two shows every night. Uh, you know, the horrible, horrible shows a that would just, you know, just experiences. Uh, uh, at the end of the night, each time, uh, they would have their like, uh, their hat with the money will come up to us and uh, it'd be like, okay. So, uh, let's see, you guys are in all in one van, right? And we're like, yeah, they're like, okay, so uh, we'll just pay you as one, then

Speaker 4:51:04we'll play football, et cetera, and the other bands on the show as one as well as their own, like a separate people. But you guys are sharing a van. So the gas money I'll get spent on the same thing and we're just like, yeah, I guess that makes sense. That's the way it goes. But it was like one, we fucking doing this, this doesn't make any sense. It's not like there's either good shows like good, good exposure, anything. And Our van that we were in on that tour broke down so hard and we had to spend a, like $500 on it and we all, we didn't have enough money at all. I think we might've had like $100 that we like made from the tour. Uh, so we all had to like contact our parents and girlfriends. Um, and just being like, Hey, is there any way you can spot me like 50 bucks or 100 bucks? Can I, can I pay you back like when I get home and work a couple of weeks at, you know, whatever job I'm at a and that's how we paid for it. It was just like, it was a disaster. Uh, but those are like the first, you know, those were just like our tours. We had no idea that they were like, these are emo tours and you are an emo bands. We were still like, we're a folk band that plays the effects. Twin drums,

Speaker 5:52:29like you said, tiny moving parts. You blew it. When you guys talk amongst yourselves, what do you say? Look, are you like, this is great that we've got sort of a built in. You know, there's people that pay attention to us, but also a, I don't know, I always joke like there was a band I worked on when I worked at equal vision records. Everyone thought everything we put out was a hardcore record and we put out this band called the snake, the cross, the crown, which is their second record is one of my favorite records of all time. It's like, it sounds like Wilco. And so, but again, they are not like, you know, they would get booked on heartcore tours and like these, like, you know, punk towards, and it was just like you could, I mean, it, it, I think they were starting to turn right before they broke up. Um, but those things, you know, sometimes when you get in that,

Speaker 2:53:26if it's a hardcore world or whatever it is, it's like you wish you were on sub pop or you were on, you know, merge or something. And it's, it's just that scene that you guys were in was happening and there was this beautiful moment. And when you guys talk amongst yourself, are you like, fuck, I wish someone had sub pop hurt us. I don't know, I'm joking way with just talk to me pop.

Speaker 4:54:01But that being said, I think so during that time when we're doing those tours, the word was never, never at all. It was the word was, um, that was the all encompassing term for a genre that like, she just took over everything. It was like a tiny marine parts. Prawn foxing calculator, uh, uh, jowls, empire, empire, just like, you name it, any band that we played with on our, you know, from like 2011 to 2013, those were all just diy bands and that was the diy community, um, you know, nationwide. Uh, and the whole idea of it was just to maintain a support function. Um, and that was it. That was just all it was. I mean, that's why like when we got paid 100 bucks for two bands, because we were in the same van, we didn't question it, we were just like, know we weren't gonna like try to handle them for more money.

Speaker 4:55:13It was just like, yeah, you did us a favor. Hopefully we, we can return it for you. Uh, and yeah, this just makes sense. It's like we're not going to take more money because we have one van that were in the same way that like football, et Cetera, wasn't going to take more money than us even though everybody up that show was there for them, you know, like, it just all made sense like that. Uh, but now is so, so, so, so different, uh, with all of these bands because none of us give a shit about a diy community and like, that sucks. And that's like, you know, that that's a bummer. And I'm kind of trying to revisit that with the snidely stuff, like trying to kind of get back into that. Granted, by the first tour that we're doing is with tigers. John, that's just because I'm not going to turn down something as awesome as that. Uh,

Speaker 2:56:08what happened do you think? Is it that there was so much notice and bands were getting signed and producers were getting like, I mean, thinking of what it was just everything was fucking happening.

Speaker 4:56:20Yeah. Well, I mean, you nailed it on the head. It's like people beyond just kids in basements, uh, gave a shit for the first time for well, you know, for us, for the first time, this happens in waves all over the country with different genres, uh, since the dawn of music like a. But for us it's like this specific, you know, wave of whatever you wanna call it and whether that's email or a fuck, I don't know, whatever genre or term you want to put on it, our wave was, we all helped each other out to book shows in basements, in houses, in art spaces. And then eventually enough kids liked it were a older, uh, like label managers or like bigger. I shouldn't say older. I guess I'm only saying that because of Fred. Uh, but like larger rapidly would start contacting us, a US meaning like all of those bands, um, or at least the lucky ones.

Speaker 4:57:34And then because like, you know, I'm a band, like Joel was Princeton. It's like that doesn't fit actually. That's an example in the universe. I can't believe I haven't said their name in this conversation yet, but the reptilian prime example of a, an unlucky bands like the most unfortunate circumstance for them. Uh, and I hope if they ever hear me saying this, that they would never take it as offense because they're one of my favorite bands of all time. Uh, but they are a band that was so embedded into that diy scene that you couldn't be, you couldn't listen to them. Like I don't think that their music made any sense to somebody that wasn't in that scene or watching bands and basements, you know, it wouldn't make any sense to a, I'm like a kid in his first year of college that like somebody just shows them in a dorm or something like the way it is, one being anything to them because a lot of their lyrics even are about like touring a or like, you know, uh, hanging out with their friends in a basement or something.

Speaker 4:58:45I'm playing shows in a basement. So for them it's like, you know, I always just thought like this is the greatest man in the world. But then once I started, once we started getting involved in like the business side of all this stuff, I started realizing like where would they fit? You know, like would they go on like it makes sense for them to be on like deathwish now, would it make sense for them to be on equal vision? Fuck, now a run for cover. No, it's like you name it. It's like any label that is a big enough to uh, don't know, like a set them apart, uh, and like put them on like a international level like that. It just wouldn't make any sense on those labels because they, they embody that diy scene, uh, more than anyone else did. So like to me it's like they are music was at least like watered down with these other influences to the point where like, it made sense outside of it, uh, like our first record, you know, like there's not one song on that record that is about the diy community.

Speaker 4:59:59They're all like relationship songs. Uh, so I think all of these bands at this point, when we all talk, it's like there's no kind of like emo conversation or diy a conversation unless we're talking about the past because at this point now it's like, even within foxing, like now is our conversations are basically how do we further the career of this band to the point where we can make it our career. Like they were like music is a, our livelihood. And, you know, this is our form of income, this is like our entire life is a writing recording and playing music. Um, and because of that it's like there's a lot less thought of like how does this affect the diy community and way more thought of like our target audience going to be into this or you know, a go to see this live or something, you know, like

Speaker 5:61:00that's really interesting. It's sort of taken from the collective approach to the individual. It's the band and you guys, you're totally right. It's like I think of bands and, and they play a show and they've got seven records and they've got to, you know, play the old one for me, you know, I'm 38 and then they got to play the, the, the single. And they got to play the new song because someone from the radio stations, they're in, all these other things start happening where it seems like you guys are having these. You're right, you're not thinking about, oh fuck, we gotta we gotta make everybody happy. It's like we have to continue this as a brand.

Speaker 4:61:39Yes. One hundred percent. And like, you know, you really, it feels so dirty to think of it that way. You feel like you're in like a boy band or something or like a, you feel like a sell out all the time.

Speaker 5:61:57Do you feel happy medium? Do you think there's a happy medium, like a band that you guys can have the, you know, you can go record wherever you want and you can release what you want. It's not like, you know, Fred at triple crowns telling you to go back into the studio and give me another single kid. No. Well

Speaker 4:62:15I think, uh, I think we've found our happy medium in a band and I would say it's a sort of happy medium. It's like, I think personally I see our band as being in between a, um, you know, grinding a touring diy band a between that and like, um, maybe like a college radio friendly or um, uh, I don't like, uh, uh, songs that could be put into a, like a, uh, a commercial or something, some kind of commercial band. I think we're somewhere in between there leaning a lot more towards, uh, like the, you know, diy touring bands, um, and that's just like, that's just how it is. We're just, uh, we make enough money at these shows because we do them constantly and every time we play them they get a little bit bigger is so low, so minute, but every single show it's a little bit bigger in each city.

Speaker 4:63:28Um, in sometimes they get smaller the worst times and when they get a smaller. But um, like for us it's like because of that, uh, we can make enough money, um, because these are door deals or like, um, you know, uh, uh, you're selling merch for more or like the tickets are more expensive or something. It's like, you know, that business side of everything starts like raising a little bit more each time. So we're able to take home enough money to pay for like maybe two months of rent from a tour and like, that's, you know, that's all we can ask for. Um, and I mean that's why we're always gone because, you know, we can't, we can't live without the, yeah, the touring, like the income from it. Um, and you know, that's why we all lose our mind constantly over this shit. Like we're all, I have like a special, um, antidepressant that I take just for tour, like, and it's just because we do it so much and you're just like, there's no stability.

Speaker 5:64:37I like the bed at night. I like being able to have that routine and you've got a routine, but it's like you've got 45 minutes of euphoria and 23 hours and 15 minutes of boredom.

Speaker 4:64:49Yes. That's how I feel. And it's not even boredom, like panic, like so many different things. It's like, you know, uh, your relationship. Like, you know, like, uh, uh, you know, if your girlfriend's depressed at home or something or like, you know, mrs you too much to handle. It's like you can't go and just be with them, um, or money like, you know, you're, you're not making enough on the tour. Like you're a each night, like you're playing those euphoric 45 minutes, but like you're realizing that there's only 100 people at the show and uh, and even if each person there buys the t shirt, you're still not making enough money to cover rent and if it keeps going that way, you know, like, you know, you start realizing how much you make from the number of people at a show or something like that. Uh, or like each, each tee shirt that you sell, like how much that means you actually make 'em. That's the stuff that gives me deep anxiety where it's like, man, we're not doing well enough. Like we need to, like, what are we missing here? And that affects our writing a lot to like our last record. I'm proud of it for sure. But uh,

Speaker 4:66:17it was definitely um, a large part of our process with it was this thing of being a, we don't want to keep touring the way we have been where we go out for a month and a half and come back with enough money to pay, you know, like one month of rent. You know, and then like go and work at a job that we absolutely hate if we even can get a job because we've been gone for a month and a half for another month and a half later. Yeah. So it's like, you know, that's scary stuff. It's like, um, it's just like knowing that you know, you have a business now, uh, like our band is our business and realizing that like sometimes that business is not doing well. Like sometimes you know, you're really eating shit and you're in a lot of debt. Like we're always in debt. Uh, and like that's, that's scary. It's just like a horrible feeling. Um,

Speaker 5:67:26turning the corner. Do you feel any, do you feel, did you feel any moments the last time you guys were out that there was, there was some tourney or was it this feels like the same.

Speaker 4:67:38It always feels the same way. That being said, it is not the same. I had to take a step back and really look at like the big picture on these things. Like, it feels like the second record we put out a for faxing did not do well. Like it doesn't feel like people care about it or like put us on another level. But when you take a step back from it and you look at, uh, how you were doing a year ago to now, or even how were doing five years ago, I think we've been going for about six or seven years now. I'm six years. Uh, it's like when you look at it like that, it's like, okay, we're doing okay. Like this is, we're getting better each time. The tours are getting shorter and you're making more money from them. And it's like, which means that you don't have to kill yourself over this stuff.

Speaker 4:68:43Uh, like for each thing that you make. So like this new record, we're workout for Fox thing to me is the best shit we've ever made because it's like you're trying to. Yeah. We're not trying to like know, achieve some kind of like radio sensation hit of a song. We're just trying to make like a great album that fits in a, uh, like a scatter graphy because that's, I think the most important thing to me now with foxing, we're on our last record is the most important thing was making like a single or something with this record. It's like, no, we want to make a, like the next chapter in like a discography were like when you look at the sum of all of the records, it's like that fits right in there and that was a great one. Like you definitely did not miss step with that one.

Speaker 4:69:38Great. It's awesome. Hopefully it's the best one and I'm so proud of, of this band for, for how well we've done so far on this record. It's like a, we're recording it ourselves. Um, and uh, and we're just, you know, just plugging away at it and taking as much time as we constantly need a. even like we're, we were stressing so hard about it because we're like, we needed to be out by March of 2018. That's the month that it needs to be out because a festivals, we'll start booking around then and uh, also it's like the first quarter, the second, like the last part of the first quarter of the year as far as the business goes and everything. And then like all of a sudden it was like we took a step back and look at it and were like, let's just not fuck with any of that.

Speaker 4:70:33Let's finish the record when it's done and put it out, whatever that can be. 20 19, who cares? Like a fan of this music, uh, will not give a shit when it comes out as long as it comes out the right way, you know, like, I think that's just such an important thing. And I think a lot of people might just fall off and stop giving a shit about this band, uh, in the time that it took between our two records. And that's okay too. You know, it's like those are the things that, these are all the reasons why we found this happy medium because it's like, you know, uh, we're not doing well enough to. So like, not worry about money, we're living, you know, living way, way under the poverty line for sure. But it's like the happy medium is that we're able to make music without stressing about, um, you know, how well the record does when it's out. It's like as long as it is good for us, you know, we, we're okay with it being like there's something like a Pinkerton instead of a blue album. Like something that takes a long time for somebody that think like, okay, this actually was pretty good

Speaker 5:71:54and I think there needs, do you have that balance? And that's what that music, you're, you're, you're going to make the right music because of that. I think. I hope so. Well if you're thinking again, if you're like, all right, March 2018 and we've got this tour and yes, I think there's, once you do that, sometimes you're like, okay great because of this really great opportunity. We're a band, we need to have a career. It makes sense, but in other ways it's like if it's going to affect the output of the music and where you sit on that desal graphy then why then you shouldn't do it.

Speaker 4:72:30Yeah, exactly. I think we, we actually have had this conversation a couple of weeks ago where we were all really frustrated with each other. We'd recently gotten back from a European tour that was way too fucking long and didn't make any money doing it. Really? Oh No, no. We ain't shit on it. Pretty hard. I mean, you know, we made, we made money doing it. We just didn't make anything close to what we actually needed to survive. Uh, and like everybody is getting jobs now and like I'm kind of biting the bullet on this, like the first time that any of us have gone back and like, okay, I need to get a job doing deliveries or whatever.

Speaker 4:73:18And it's like, that feels pretty defeated. Like that's a, you know, like I'm, I'm looking pretty rough on money right now. And because of that we all take it out on each other. We take it out on our band and we were doing that a lot and we all sat down our practice space, which is also like our little studio. And uh, we kind of just had it out with each other, like just, um, you know, just kind of like went off on each other about the things that we were mad about. But by the end of it we realized one thing that we do just all the time is we make fun of our own band. And we talk about how, you know, how much it's like ruining our life and how the music that we make is just like a mediocre bullshit. But we, for the first time in maybe ever, we all sat down and we were like, can we just say out loud to each other if we believe this, we all say out loud to each other that we actually liked this band and that this is fulfilling to us.

Speaker 4:74:33You know, like that this is a, that we think this is good music. And that we, uh, we had this hadn't been time wasted and we were all able to do it. We were all able to like say out loud for the first time, like, you know what, I make fun of this shit a lot, but like I wouldn't want to be doing it any other way. Like, this is, this is the, you know, this is our life. And like if I did, if I hated it enough, I would quit because it's not like I'm sticking around for the money or the fame or anything. It's like I'm sticking around because of this is like important to me, you know?

Speaker 5:75:13That's amazing that you guys were able to do that.

Speaker 4:75:17Yeah. No, it was, it was super, uh, I don't know, a super important moment for all of us I think. Or it was just like, okay, this isn't all for nothing. Like where we're going to be. Okay. You know, even if we all have to have our second jobs, uh, that we, even if we all have to like start and quit a job within a month, uh, off and on for the next years to come, like, this is going to be okay.

Speaker 5:75:46And for you guys to say that altogether and not one person say no, shows a lot about you guys and how much you've been through and how, I mean again, you guys believing in it and that's going to come through in the music.

Speaker 4:76:00I hope so. I really hope so. I think it will for us at least, I hope it translates in some way because it's like, don't know. I mean, it's definitely a weird thing that we're working on right now. It's like, um, if you look at this one versus like our first record, two different bands, um, and, but in reality it's like, it's really what we needed to make to like, you know, uh, stay sane. It's like, and you know, that's the thing that I actually do. I'm making this record is the first time that I've actually like a realized that I need to give slack to bands more like bands that I love. Um, you know, like, I'm trying to think of the best example. Like, uh, I dunno, wheezers a pretty good one. I'm like, okay, Pinkerton blue album, everything else is fucked. Like just the worst thing in the world, maybe green album is patentable, but like other than that, everything is horrible.

Speaker 4:77:08They're just like maybe five songs with the rest of the albums that I like a. But this is the first time that I've actually listened and been like, I have to give slack to these people. Like they can't keep making the same record over and over again because there are different people than they were the first time there'd be that, you know, like their rivers is not the same rivers that he was when he made blue album. It's been through insane shit. You know, another band that I absolutely will always listening to all the way through is why you listen to why.

Speaker 6:77:42Which one? Again? Y, W, h y. yeah. Question Mark. No,

Speaker 4:77:49God. Well, okay. They will know no fucking way after we get done on this conversation will not be one of your favorite pants. After you listen to them. They are, they just put out a new record that is fucking phenomenal. Um, but they were probably seven or eight records deep. And I'm a Yoni. Wolf isn't of um, he is like kind of a wrapper. This is going to sound the way you described as band will make them sound like they are

Speaker 6:78:32so I can limp biscuit. Um,

Speaker 4:78:37just, uh, he, he's like a rapper. I'm just like so, so influenced by hip hop, but he's also just like really just like a great lyricist a lot like, um, new without you, like Aaron from you without you just like, you know, he, it's like you've got too many words to just sing them. So like I've, I've got too many great lyrics to like just, you know, only pick a few. I have to give you all of them. Um, and it's just like every record that they put out, we'll do that. Like, uh, I, I'll just, I have to like, you know, throw on headphones and listen to the entire thing. And there's only a handful of bands that I, I really feel that way about the way that I've always thought of boxing is like we are, we are building our way towards being like a, a, a band that somebody can look back at their discography and appreciate, um, like, uh, like my, my, like my kind of goal with what we do.

Speaker 4:79:42Kind of like the national, you know, like the national who I just absolutely love them. But like, uh, you know, their first few records were just, you know, shit, like nobody cared about them. They're incredible records. But like, you know, it took until that box or record or high violet before people, before they became like this sensation that they are. Um, and once that happened, then Google had not just this new album that came out from them, but like an entire back catalog of all of these songs and all these, you know, like music videos or whatever. Like all these things that they could like, you know, oh, I couldn't get enough of their new record. Like there's, you know, all of these other students that I've never heard of before and I've always kind of wanted that to be like where we're headed a, granted it takes us a long time to make these records, but like I hope I like lady are like fourth or fifth record if we get that far that um, like some kid will hear, you know, a lp five, it'd be like, Holy Fuck, I love all the songs, I need more.

Speaker 4:80:54And there'll be like, yes, I get to go back and listen to all this other shit. This is great.

Speaker 5:81:00Like Green Day, you know, they were on lookout and that was it. And then they went to a scary major label. Yeah. But then they fucking made American idiot and reclaimed like a different. They had a different look. They had a different sound and it. And it worked. Exactly. Fucking green day.

Speaker 4:81:18Yeah, exactly. I mean like, uh, I've always, you know, I really want to do that with our next record, which is such a lame thing to admit, but I want to like reinvent, like the kind of look, an idea of faxing just so that like a kid can be like, oh, there's this new band foxing. Then look back at our other shit and be like, Whoa, there's like arrows to this stuff.

Speaker 5:81:47Well Tom, for washed up talked about, um, 10 years ago and now they're fucking stupid glasses that he used to wear.

Speaker 4:82:01He's got like his, you know, his different look for every record, like the and stuff like that. There's something so cool about that. Like

Speaker 5:82:12you should not have to look the same.

Speaker 4:82:14No. Yeah, exactly. I think for awhile I had a mustache and a and people on like the Internet, like on Tumblr and stuff would just like talk about my mustache and I was like, I guess I can't shave this thing even though I hate it, like people make fun of me now. I'm like, I just did it because I thought it was funny at first, but now it's like you can't shave it. But then once I did, I was like, Hey, you know what? Now there's like a. When I look back at pictures, at least for me, I can tell what a album we were touring on because if I had a mustache that means that we're on our first album. If I didn't have a mustache, we're on our second one and hopefully I'll have like a, like white hair and a spandex suit that I each night or something

Speaker 5:83:07for this record. What I want you guys to do, and I actually tell bands that I work with now is remember to save things and take a random photo and maybe throw the date, you know, remember the date or email to yourself with the date every day and five years from now when we're hopefully talking or I'm seeing you at the show and there's an anniversary of some record. You have something from that time and that place for remembrance. But not for just you, but for, you know, fan like me. Like, oh, I remember that south by show and there was this flyer, whatever it was, and I think that's gonna be important for you guys as a, as an artist, as a, as a, as a band. And it seems weird now, but it's gonna mean something.

Speaker 4:83:59Yeah, of course a huge. And we don't do that ever because we're so like unhappy while we're on a

Speaker 5:84:08take a picture.

Speaker 4:84:12I think it's so important to do stuff like that. There's always a kid at every show he asks like how, you know, how do you make it in music? And a lot of times I'll just like ask him a, we'll just talk about the same shit that me and you we're talking about now, but like I'll a lot of times asked him like, well what do you play? Like what's your instrument? And so many of these kids are like, I don't a guitarist and singer. I used to play a clarinet when I was a little kid though. Like that's what I started on. So that's my first instrument, but I'm getting better at guitar. I'm like rock, Guitar, clarinet, you're fucking instrument. Same thing with the kid crying where it's, you know, as cheesy as it may be, it's like this is the stuff that makes it all worth it. Like I don't know, uh, if I would ever give a shit about any of this touring stuff, uh, if I didn't have interactions like that. And I think that's why most bands, even if they're really great, why a lot of them end is because they don't have those connections with people that makes them realize what they're doing is important.

Speaker 5:85:26I think you guys having that argument, if you didn't have that background of what was going on and, and knowing that those things were happening, maybe that would have been a different discussion. Maybe you all had your own buses and your different things in different examples maybe can play and this is just the one, but you guys having that history helps and you know, how many bands go to Europe and break up. I guess they can go anywhere but you're up sometimes puts people at their, in their home country and they're under. It's definitely

Speaker 4:86:03felt more

Speaker 2:86:04like I was doomed with music than when I've been in Europe. It's a wonderful place. It's just also a unforgiving. Remember when you had a. well, of course you remember when the van was stolen. I'm. Yes. You know, obviously that's crazy detriment, but the amount of support that happened from it was fucking amazing.

Speaker 4:86:30That was the worst. Invest a tour, a like one of the top three worst days of to wherever, but also the same day was like, at least, you know, top five best days have already been on it is because of that. It was like a, it was so much a lemons to lemonade situation, but it at a certain point we like we started giving we group we have to give money to charity. It was like we can't possibly take it. Like we can't possibly profit off of this. That's fucking stupid. Like, that'd be the scummy and when I know, but beyond that it was like, you know, like a,

Speaker 4:87:25the people coming out of the woodwork to say like, Hey, I heard about this because many people to me, but I have no idea who you are. Uh, I wasn't like, I didn't care. But then like, but then they started listening to their music and we liked it. It was just like, holy fuck, like that is so cool. Like there's nothing cooler than that, a to b. So I don't know, feeling so hopeless in a moment where it's like so hopeless in, in humanity in general to say like, uh, somebody could not, you know, steal something because like, of course you don't understand how somebody could steal something from you, but like systematically, like follow you to the place that you're staying in, like bring the necessary tools to the trailer and might have another car ready to go to like haul it away. It's like, that's like, that's really scary and bad.

Speaker 4:88:32That's like, uh, uh, somebody like planning a murder or something like, hey, that's not nearly on the same level. You know, that's a heist, that's true of true crime. There's, there's no passion. And there's no, uh, like, you know, spontaneity in it. It was like somebody's fucking followed us to do that shit and I'm just kinda like, yeah, like fuck the world for that, like that, that unbelievably horrible. But then all of a sudden, like, immediately after, it was like, the world was unfair. It was like, it balanced itself out in that moment. So fucking hard. Like a response from that shit got to a point where it was like, I don't know, we had a good night. That's insane. How, what other line of work you have a good night after your entire business is stolen from you, you know, it was $30,000 worth of equipment and it was all of our equipment from the time that we were 12 years old til that moment.

Speaker 4:89:49Like, you know, like some of us before that, it's like, um, you know, I had a trumpet that uh, Evan Evan white into it over it. Um, attempted that, uh, he gave me was like this super special moment where like I'm, his uncle passed away and left him a trumpet and a, we were at a show together and he was just like, hey man, I brought you this, I want you to have it because I don't know how to play trumpet. And like it's really important to me and I would keep it and collect dust in my house. But I figured like my uncle would have wanted it to be like used and I feel like you're the person that I want to like use it. And it was just like, you know, we shared so much, like it was just like a tearful exchange where it was just like, holy fuck man, like that, you know, it's like asking like somebody asking you to be like their best man or something like a, it was so important in that fucking trump it was stolen.

Speaker 4:90:49It was taken. And like, you know, that was the, that was the first thing I thought of when I saw the trailer was gone. Um, but then once we started, like a different, was the first person I called before, like my parents or anything and I called him and I was just like crying and I'm like, dude, like I can't, I don't know how to like say this to you and I don't know how, you know, like, you're going to hate me forever for this. But like, that, trump has gone. And he was like, I don't know, it was like, he, he just immediately jumped right to like, what can I fucking do to help? Like, what do you need? What can I like mail you, what guitar do you need, you know, like, tell me anything and I'll help you out. Like, don't fucking think about that trumpet for a second. Uh, just the same as like my uncle would have wanted you to like, or to for it to be played and not collect dust. He also would understand, like, you know, he's a trumpet player, he's a musician. Like he understood, he understood the,

Speaker 4:92:03like the pains of bringing an instrument with you and the love that you have for an instrument that can be taken away from you in a moment or somebody takes it. So like he's just like, don't worry about it. Like, it's fine, you know?

Speaker 7:92:15Uh Huh.

Speaker 4:92:17I think it's, it's that kind of shit that like you just don't get in other jobs, you know, like, I dunno like a desk job as a, as rewarding as it could be for different reasons. There's really not another job where like, the connection you have with your tools, uh, could be like, it's like a overshadowed by the connection you have with people, you know, like, and, and the way that like a pupils like love and uh, I don't know, charity could like overshadow that shit so much. It was a, I don't know, one of the most polarizing days for, for my, my, uh, my brain.

Speaker 5:93:11You can do music while you're walking, you can do music while you're working. It's in movies. It's played in between every single break of a TV show. It's everywhere. And I think for you as a band to be able to create music and hopefully at some point you guys will be comfortable and not have to do another job. But for you guys to do that and have people care, I think you've already won.

Speaker 4:93:38Oh, 100 percent. I totally agree. I, yeah, I think that we, I think that you hit the nail on the head. It's like,

Speaker 7:93:50uh,

Speaker 4:93:52you know, is this shit can be gone in an instant. Like

Speaker 7:93:56uh,

Speaker 4:93:58we could all die in a fiery van crash. We can all, uh, people could just, just instantly stopped caring about our music. You know, like tragedy happens. It's like, but at the end of the day we, I think we'll always have like, moments like that, you know, that trailer robbery where it's like where you really learned something about humanity and it just completely is just like, I don't know, it's like who gives a shit about the music side of all that? Like, you know, it's like a, a real, a real, uh, example of like humanity, like correcting itself, which is just, you know, I don't know. I wouldn't say I would like to go through it again, but I do feel like, uh, another example of that humanity would be much appreciated every year

Speaker 5:94:53you saying that it's been instilled since your sister and brother told you about those bands and you went and saw maybe some of the shows are you went online and watched a video or you maybe saw your first show or in your first band and someone told you, oh, this is what you do with the show and this is how you add. I guess this is kind of what people do and you can do your own thing, but this is kind of accepted or this is how you act and you learn those things and then you shared. And I think that same thing where, of course the people that you're with and associated with, when something wrong happens, you find out who your friends are.

Speaker 4:95:30I'm really looking forward to the, like the last record of this band, uh, not like I can't wait until this ends, but I'm looking forward to the moment where we decide it's over and look back at all of it. Uh, because so far it's like, you know, these have been like the most fulfilling five years in my life. They've been probably the five weirdest at a lot of times, like emotionally draining years of my life, but they've also been like the $5 probably that I've ever felt like, you know, like when I was in high school and college, like you're always just kind of like doing what whatever you're supposed to be doing, but then all of a sudden it was like, what we started doing tours. It was like I have this new purpose and I like, I believe in what I'm doing for the first time. I'm like, I don't know that I'm really looking forward to being able to look back at all. Connor, you did great and agree with the podcast or my life. I agree. I agree with one, if not both.

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