Washed Up Emo

#166 - William Goldsmith (Sunny Day Real Estate, The Fire Theft, Foo Fighters, Assertion)

January 20, 2020 Tom Mullen Episode 166
Washed Up Emo
#166 - William Goldsmith (Sunny Day Real Estate, The Fire Theft, Foo Fighters, Assertion)
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Washed Up Emo
#166 - William Goldsmith (Sunny Day Real Estate, The Fire Theft, Foo Fighters, Assertion)
Jan 20, 2020 Episode 166
Tom Mullen

Today we welcome drummer, William Goldsmith from Sunny Day Real Estate. You may also know him from The Fire Theft, Foo Fighters or his new band called Assertion. 

William and I had an amazing discussion about how he got into music, meeting Jeremy Enigk, the formation of Sunny Day Real Estate, and the lasting impact of the band. We also talk about how he met his close friend and bandmate in Assertion, Justin Tamminga, who you’ll hear speak up at times during the podcast. 

William’s story is one of perseverance, admitting when you need to fix yourself and when everything is stacked against you, you keep picking yourself back up. 

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/washedupemo)

Show Notes Transcript

Today we welcome drummer, William Goldsmith from Sunny Day Real Estate. You may also know him from The Fire Theft, Foo Fighters or his new band called Assertion. 

William and I had an amazing discussion about how he got into music, meeting Jeremy Enigk, the formation of Sunny Day Real Estate, and the lasting impact of the band. We also talk about how he met his close friend and bandmate in Assertion, Justin Tamminga, who you’ll hear speak up at times during the podcast. 

William’s story is one of perseverance, admitting when you need to fix yourself and when everything is stacked against you, you keep picking yourself back up. 

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/washedupemo)

Tom Mullen:   0:10
Hello and welcome Episode 166 of the wash up female podcast. I Am Tom Mullen from washed up mo dot com Today Welcome drummer William Goldsmith from Sunny Day Real Estate. You may also know him from the fire theft Foo Fighters or his new band called Assertion. William and I had an amazing discussion on how he got into music beating Germany, formation of sunny day real estate and the lasting impact of that band. We'll see how he met his close friend and band mate, Insertion Justin Dominga. You'll hear speak up at times during the podcast. Williamsstory is one of perseverance, admitting when you need to fix yourself, and when everything is stacked against you, you keep picking yourself back up. It's a beautiful story, and I hope you enjoy this one. Thank you to all the patrons supporters out there. You help with the motivation when it's one o'clock in the morning on a work night, and I need to keep pushing to make this the best podcast I can make. Thank you so much if you want to support the hot gas head on over to a tree on dot com, washing of chemo. This is Episode 166 of the washing up on your podcast. Would William Goldsmith from Sunny Day, Real estate way? I mean, I could tell you this Sort of, like,

William Goldsmith:   1:47
weird, almost, uh, kind of embarrassing aspect of it or not embarrassing, but it's kind of weird. When I was five, I had an imaginary friend who was a drummer. Don't ask me. Not saying it was riel. Kids have imaginary friends, but it just so happens that, uh, this particular person who went by the name of, uh, shit. What was his name? I forgot. Anyway, he was a drummer, so that was kind of the first thing that really sparked my interest. And then, um, the first band that I really got exposed to is the Beatles. And so I was obsessed with the Beatles, And I was five and had somewhere invisible dude going. Yeah, you had the drums. A cool dude group. So, you know, I mean, kids have imaginary friends, so But that was one of the first things that that got me so and so I You know, of course I went to the thing where I was a kid where I I thought the Beatles were the best thing in the world. Ringo is the greatest drummer in the world, and that's just the way that it was. But, uh, but I still love the Beatles, you know? So on, then also, my brother, um, played the drums a little bit and he had a drawing the kids set up in the basement, and I would just go down there and just stare at it. I remember one time you sat down behind a kid and you start playing a little bit and I went I watch from the side and watched, you know, the melon hitting the bass drum. And for me, that was, like, the coolest thing I've ever seen. Yeah, So that ask for a drum kit when I was five and 6789 all the way until finally, 13 years old, they gave in and finally gave me, Got me drunk it And it was Christmas Eve and they got it. Got it, gave it to me. I set it up immediately and just started playing. I didn't, uh, didn't take lessons. I just just sort of did it first I was just like, you know, just screwing around. But then when I then I my brother had these old speakers and and at this old stereo system that he had left in my folks is placed. Some haven't set that up behind me behind the kid. And I would listen to, like, the who and, like, Led Zeppelin, things like that, and then try to do what they were doing a little bit as much as I could trying to do the like, We're double things on the bass drum, that bottom? Or do you know that a guy like sitting there trying to figure out how he's doing that, finally having this eureka moment? You know, I wish that would have taken lessons, but it just didn't happen that way.

Tom Mullen:   3:54
Music, you know, especially there's connections to, you know, spirituality. And I think I've read or heard that you raised Catholic as well. You were. I was raised Catholic, and the only way that I could get through it was to play in the band tango like I was like, Oh, you're gonna make me go. Well, I'm gonna play in the band then. But it still felt like things weren't talked about. Like, even though you're supposed to go to this thing for 45 minutes, you go up and get the host. You sit down and go home. Everyone's great. It was almost like a checklist versus something that actually helped and funny that music, like, got me through that while I was trying to do my own thing. What was your experience with that?

William Goldsmith:   4:33
So Catholicism's was responsible for scaring an absolute shit out of me. You know, when I was, you know, second grade, they basically, you know, they're like, Look, if you're gonna you're gonna go to heaven or hell. That depends on if you're bad or good. I was just like she business. So you know that. You know, you're literally, like, terrified. You're like, Wow. Okay, so I play my cards right or burn for eternity, you know, like So what's playing my cards, right? Unfortunately, So listening to music definitely was a way of getting through it, but unfortunately, I didn't really get to play until I was 13. So I had to just sort of, like, absorb music, um, as a way of sort of, ah coping mechanism. But I wasn't able to. I didn't have an outlet yet, so until I was 13. But, um but yeah, but the first record I ever bought was remaining light by the talking heads. That was first record. I ever actually went out. And I purchased the cassette tape, actually. And then, of course, talking heads became I'm you know, I'm I'm an extremist. So then I was, like, hyper focused on talking. It's like when I was in sixth grade. It's all I listen to, you know. But then when I was in eighth grade, my brother sat me down and played me Quadrophenia, you know, permanent ways by Rush. Yes. You know, I just, you know, just on and on and on. And, uh, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, things like that. But then my sister also listened to a lot of Earth, Wind Fire and Stevie Wonder. And I really liked that stuff a lot and still do actually the groom off. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I definitely Yeah. I've learned to appreciate that and have gotten better it falling into it as I've gotten older, which is good. I would like I was exposed to Stevie Wonder Earth wind and fire stuff like that. My sister would just always be playing it, you know? So, um and I always liked it, you know? But then when my brother sat me down and, like specifically was because he knew I was like looking, that I wanted more music, you know? So that's what he likes. Played me Quadrophenia. And that was that changed everything to all. My friends in eighth grade were basically interested. Music, too. So we basically tried to start a band. And we, of course, you know, it was me and on the drums. And then my friend, who had a keyboard and my other friend, who just yelled stuff he's just scream stuff. That was the way we could start in. Ah. Then when I started high school, I met a guy named Jon Adkins 764 hero. Yes, and freshman year of high school. I met this guy named John Atkins and he played bass and he played in a band. I was like, Dude, hi, You want to play? And he was like, Oh, yes, So then we started a band called the 13 and ah, Jeremy actually tried out to play bass for that man. But he showed up with his guitar and wanted to sing and play guitar. And we're like, That's great. You're really some really good man. But we're looking for a bass player. Yeah, because I because I met Jeremy, um, saw his plan with Jon Adkins. I met Jeremy. He was 14 years old. I was 16 and I met him in the first time we met. We played and Wow and he John had actually left his base of the house and Jeremy and I jammed. I played drums and he actually played. Bass played John's base because John, there was no guitar. They're just his bish and it was really cool, you know, It was really it was Yeah. Immediately, the first time we sat down to play, it was cool. So that's why I thought it would be cool. Haven't come and play based John night, but then he was like, Well, actually, I it's hard saying quite well, No, that's just so happened. That's when I really start to get serious. Where John Atkins and I were literate with like we would every single day, was about getting to the weekend when he got to come over and we got to play for, like, eight or nine hours and then go and sit at the park and, like, beef jerky and dream of making a cassette tape. You know, you, you know, just like thinking about it and like, Wow. And then you discovered harmonies. And it was like he had discovered fire or something. And he was like, Plays me a song and ages the harm me I'm like, Oh, my God, you know, it's like all these, you know? It's cool. You know? That's the interesting thing about, you know, being self taught or like, literally, just, you know, yeah, completely naive and oblivious and having no sort of music educational background. Musically, it's like you're discovering these things and you're like this, uh, it's this cost of beginner mind kind of thing. You know, I was like, Desperate, hungry for more like music. Then Jeremy started playing in ah, hardcore band, and they needed a drummer. Jeremy traditionally didn't really play hard core, but he just decided to start playing in this hard core man. So Jeremy played. There are some songs that Jeremy plays still today that he had written back then secretly, by himself in his room with his four track. I would hear them and it's weird. I went some place the other day. Justin, I did. And by the way, he was amazing. He sound sounded. It's like the most professional version of Jeremy of himself ever

Tom Mullen:   9:17
after the last solo tour. I just said, Why are you not recording every single show? You're sounding better and he's He kind of had a Well, I don't know. And I was like, Just record the show.

William Goldsmith:   9:30
Justin offered to record the show that we're gonna go to international and he was like, No, I think I think I'm gonna start doing them pretty cereals like we have been. There's no catch here. There's no like, you know, that it's just okay. It's all right, you know? E don't know, but but he sounded great. It was amazing. I mean, I was like, you know, it was it was actually a very emotional experience. But the crazy thing is like hearing it songs. Were you like men? I heard this for the first time back then. Wow, when he was like 15 you know, like it's crazy So anyway,

Tom Mullen:   10:03
what did you connect on? What? What about it? Between you two? Was it?

William Goldsmith:   10:09
Well, I mean, just Well, Jeremy and I clicked. I mean, like, immediately like, uh, the person I click The Hardest World with Jon Adkins. It was like our first discover. It was my first discovery actually able to, like have, ah, spiritually and musical interaction with someone. And it's like, you know, like every moment is like, Wow, I can't believe we just played a thing, you know, made a song like with parts and changes. It's crazy. So Jeremy and I really played well together the first time we played, but then when he started playing me the songs that he worked on by himself, kind of secretly they were so moved me like I mean I mean, I was just like, hold it. You know, I would be almost in tears. Listen to these songs and Mike. Dude, how many of these do you have? Those stayed in, you know, in his room. It was like his thing. It was like his special private thing that he did by himself. And so then, But the hard core thing, you know, it's like, you know, I think it was a way Thio to actually start playing shows, you know, because you know what I mean To actually go and be able to play the show because hard core shows, you know, the kids being put on by other kids, you know,

Tom Mullen:   11:16
and also different genres.

William Goldsmith:   11:18
Sure, although is all pretty much like, you know, it was pretty much all very similar. That was a way for us to actually like going out and playing shows, which was actually very scary. But you know what? We did it because you want to do it. But I was a senior in high school, and Jeremy was Welch was was supposed to be a, I think, sophomore junior, but he kind of decided to just sort of, like, not do the school thing anymore. And he and my friend are my friend Aaron were living on the streets for a while, but then they were just, you know, they would Most of the time they would sleep in the woods by my parent's house. And then as soon as the coast is clear, then they'd come in and

Tom Mullen:   11:57
during during his high school years. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Wow.

William Goldsmith:   12:01
Yeah. And then, uh, yeah, so and then we practice at my parentshouse, you know?

Tom Mullen:   12:05
So your parents were supportive of make making music.

William Goldsmith:   12:08
They just sort of, except they finally just had to accept it. I mean, you know, I just you know, when you start asking for a drunk, it, you know, the age of five. You don't stop all the way to age 13 and then once they give you the kit, you don't ever stop playing it. And then, you know, of course, the next logical sort of step is other people are going to be coming over and playing with you. So I don't think they necessarily liked the music. At least that the hardcore band wasn't playing, But we're playing down in the basement. So yeah, we would play mostly shows like a place called The Party Hall, which is in Seattle on 21st in Madison, joined another hardcore band right when I was graduating high school. And that was when I went on my first tour with a band called Positive Greed. The singer, greedy Greg is what they called is what they call them and still call him today. Sometimes they lived in this house called the Blue House and that's World. They also had a lot of shows there, and that's where a reason for hate recorded. Our first demo was down in the basement

Tom Mullen:   13:02
being in Seattle, seeing those shows, getting involved, like what other bands or what other things were you hearing and feeling?

William Goldsmith:   13:09
So I was playing in a band called Positive Greed, the Igloo Sex and then, um, Reason for Hate. And then Nate Mendel and Dan Horner started coming over to the house that I was living at. This is after I This is like when I was, you know, almost 19. They started coming over to that house and hanging out, which was weird because they weren't really very good friends with anybody at that house. But everybody's wondering why are they coming over every night and turns out that they had heard a recording? I done with that band Positive greed, And they're like, Oh, we should get that drummer Wow. So because they had started a band when they were like, Well, we got to get that drummer Where's he at that? He always hanging out over there. That's where he lives. Okay, let's just start going over there. So they started going over there, and then they start taking me on walks. Then, like after a few walks here. Like so, what do you feel about coming over and playing drums with us a little bit. And I was like, Oh, yeah, sure. I mean, I'm in three bands would be 1/4 man. Not that's fine. So, uh, but then, of course I did up. Nate gave me a talk. How to talk with me. It was like, you know, you need thio make a decision, you know? So I quit. Those three bands stay with that band, but it was after Sunny Day had started. Well, that wasn't what we were called initially, but it was after that bandit started and then all sudden like they were, you just started discovering things like splint. Spider Land came into the picture, and that was like, you know, that was like, this weird, like, Whoa, You know, there's a whole different thing. They obviously had a huge influence on sunny day real estate, but I don't think it's anything you can really hear. Really? It was just more like we're inspired. So Sunny Day was really, really inspired by rights to spring the hated lungfish. Uh, you know, and of course, shudder to think Benghazi things like that. So so that it was really it was an interesting experience getting into hard corn, being like, you know, it's It's it's cool. Although, I mean, I don't I was more like I grew up on, like classic rock, you know, and kind of more sophisticated song arrangements. I like the, you know, the energy of the punk rock thing or the hard core thing. But then it was an interesting experience, discovering like Fugazi and then discovering, you know, like I shudder to think these bands that are from the park rock scene that are like experimenting with with actual, like song arrangements and melody and things like that. And that's pretty much what sunny day real estate was was sort of an experiment by people that played hard core to see what would be like to actually like, you know, have like, more sophisticated arrangements in space if possible, you know. But then we didn't have a singer. We couldn't really find a singer. We were instrumental for a while, then damn it. So we'll we'll just do what we always do. We all, you know, just scream. So Dan screamed for a while and then, um I showed them Jeremy's stuff that that he did by himself, and they were blown away by it. So we started asking Jeremy to open up for a sunny day, real estate, just acoustically, just by himself so he would open up for some shows. And then I started pushing. The idea was like, You know, maybe we should haven't come and sing for the band and dance like No, no, no, it's fine the way it is. Okay, then Finally, when they went on tour with Christ on a crutch, he danced said, Okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna start a project with Jeremy singing and he and I'll play bass. You know, Nate's gone. I'll play bass. We won't World colleges. Two completely different things. So we wrote like God, Uh, we were quite a few songs, and I think initially, like six songs and then, um, played two shows, I think. Yeah, we played two shows. One show was that ah, high school at eight in the morning, which was very now high school is like, uh called Liked best was like an alternative school or something there. And then, uh, yeah, man. Playing a show at 8 a.m. is not a good idea. It's a shock to the system. It's really weird, you know, I was like So all I just shows were illegal for a while in Seattle. And so and then Curtis Pits was able to arrange having an all ages show at the Odd Fellows Hall. And so it was us at which we were called thief Steal Me a peach. That was with Jeremy and Dan and I that that experiment Hush Harbor and which is John Atkins from 764 Hero. That's his band before that. And then, Ah, Rain, Like the Sound of Trains, which is pee creaming act from verbal assault, his band and Dougie Bird from Beefeater. And Josh was the drummer, uh, and then disband Kong, which is like this weird should have weird drum thing kind of hard to explain, but, um and we played that show and ah, and then they got back from the tour with Christ on a crutch and were like, Hey, we show you something So we played in the six songs and he was like, So what do we do? Know? We're like, Well, we're thinking maybe we dumped the 46 songs we've written on and then start new with these things these new with these six songs right here and then, you know, and you start, you play bass and you play dance parts and then, um, Dan will just play second guitar. And so that's what we did. Pretty much well, Nate heard the songs and her Jeremy singing years like Okay, it's a no brainer yet we should do this, you know, obviously, you know, I mean would be silly to, like Start a state. I mean, you know, it may as well just put the two together, you know, except for it was more like the other one took over, and everything else that we had done in the past just sort of got thrown in the trash. It's unfortunate. I wish that we would have recorded all that stuff we had done back then. We only recorded some of it, but you know, I mean, I'm not saying it wasn't like really great, but it's just still interesting. It was a very inspiring time, that's for sure, leading up to where Jeremy had joined the band. Like my our experiences. Uh, Nate and Dan tonight, our journey to get there like, uh, exploring music was definitely, like a huge turning point for me. Changed everything. You know, it's crazy.

Tom Mullen:   18:51
What did you learn from them or what? Did you guys learn together?

William Goldsmith:   18:54
Oh, we just learned that we were were capable of of of writing music. That was like, it wasn't like anything we'd ever heard. And it was really interesting and really exciting to play. And it was just It was really cool is the kind of thing where we would get done. We'd be like, you know, you know, I can't believe that we just actually wrote that, you know? You know, so you know, and dan was very very, uh, Dan Dan had this way of, of, of inspiring you. Ah, literally. Like like reacting to things that you're doing as if it was like it was the greatest thing that had ever been done. And no one's ever done it before and like, you know, and and it really, really pushed you further saw. It's interesting

Tom Mullen:   19:39
what was happening at the time that you felt this. This had a place

William Goldsmith:   19:45
it didn't. It didn't have a place. That guy Curtis Pits, was able to get in all they just show set up that one time. But then after that, it was still like pulling teeth, like all the all ages. Shows were illegal. And you couldn't get a show at any of the local Seattle clubs or anything, or bars or anything unless you knew someone in that scene. So where we're coming from, like the hard core scene and the and I don't know, you want to call it the grunge, Whatever seen whatever that seat that thing that was happening, they were totally separate. And unless you were somehow connected to that world, you couldn't get a show anywhere to save your life. Nate was trying. They would call this place that place. They just hang up on him. So we were stuck in the basement Every now and again. We would basically you go to, like, say, most lake or spoke hand to play a show. Like one time we went to Spokane and played a show with lungfish. So it was Jeremy opening out. It was Jeremy, Nick lungfish and us. Not the first time I saw a lungfish and I was like, Holy shit, but, uh, yeah blew me away. So, um, actually I was I was packing up my drums and I noticed that Jeremy was like, just staring at this stage. It was like, Dude, what's happening? Sort of like emotions for me to look at this stage. And I looked and then I saw and then I heard, and I know it was just completely mesmerized. This guy's like shadow boxing, you know, I, you know, is like that. It was such a pure self expression, that band, it was so hypnotic and honest. It was so honest. It was just It was like it was four men that knew each other and cared about each other. That's what you felt like. And they were making music. That was an expression of their souls together as men. And it was just so honest. I would just blew me away. So, you know, I mean, long fish may not be for everybody, but it sure was for me, but back to what I was originally when I was saying was that we didn't have a place. We were stuck in the basement. We we didn't have anywhere to go, But that was fine for me. You know, like I mean, you know, the idea of being able to make a record or anything was so not on the radar. It was just it wasn't even. It just wasn't on the table, at least for me. I just didn't think of it as being a possibility. So we did go on record a demo. Uh, Dan and Nate and I earlier on. And, um, that's that's known as the empty set tape because we're called empty said at the time, but on And that stuff's just ridiculous. It's very interesting. I'll send it to you. It's very interesting to listen to, but it's definitely ridiculous. But, you know, you're like, Holy good Lord, you know, And then I may be that sort of isolation. We're just having nowhere to go. But the basement contributed to. It beats being such it was already a personal thing, but it became thio an exclusively personal thing. It was like, this is for us and no one else. This is like, this is our way of, like, expressing ourselves, you know? And this is where where it's gonna stay. And it was still that way when Jeremy played in the band. But then then we ended up accidentally getting a show and ah, we were, uh well, there was that there was a turning point. Where then, all sudden, all they just shows were possible again. So then we slowly started playing some shows here and there. We played a show with unwound and jawbreaker at this one place came over where it was, um and, ah, you know, So that start happening. And then we accidentally got a show at the Crocodile Cafe with the bank holds skirt cause engine kid at the time, Couldn't they could They were supposed to play the show. They couldn't play. So then Greg Anderson prevention kids said, and he was in brotherhood, too. He said, uh, he told the promoter, Eric Soderstrom. He said, Hey, you know, there's this band study materials that you should have play instead of us. So we did, and he saw us play. And then he said, You know what? I was an experiment. I'm gonna put you guys on the sub pop anniversary party show is the first band just just to see what happens. So he did. And then there was one person in the audience and that was Jonathan Pontell, man. He walked up, said, You guys want to make a record And he said You have right and laughed at him. And then I realized that he was the guy that ran sub pop and she was being serious. So we said, Okay, you know, So that's that. Then he paid for the release of the thief. Steal me a peach. Seven inch was, uh, was called. And but then when we put it on one day, I stopped breathing records, but it was really paid for by sub pop. And then we and then we went and did a bunch of touring, you know, and played shows to like about on an average of 2 to 6 people a night, you know, night after night after night. And then, you know, a tour with the dirt fisherman. 30 odd six stuff like that. And then then when we're in the process of breaking up, we tracked the music for the pink record but not the vocals. Jeremy decided to leave the band and then we just We got offered to go on tour. Shudder to think we're like, Dude, we have to go on to her. Shudder to think And we should finish the second record, at least you know. So we went on tour, started to think, and this is after diary had come out, finally had come out and it was weird. We went on that tour and then slowly show after show people started showing up more. And then also when we started realizing that there were these that were, there were people showing up and there was a response to us, that was it wasn't like a contrived like, you know, superficial people cheering, you know what I mean? It was like there was this authentic spiritually exchange, like there was something that we were doing that hit some folks that, you know, there was an expression of our humanity that was picked up by people. You know what I guess men. And that was a very overwhelming experience. And that's where I and then I got kind of sad. It was like Well, you bad? We're breaking up. Got back, broke up. Jeremy went into the studio. Dan went in and put his guitar tracks down than Jeremy went into the studio with Brad and did the vocals for the Pinker record. And then it came out

Tom Mullen:   25:52
Wow. And from that, that ending time Did you start? I mean again, This the dreaded word that everybody hates and is the most hated word in music genre. Did you feel that it, like it was being connected to you guys? And was it something that felt weird from the get go? Or was it something The word M o like having it connected to you guys?

William Goldsmith:   26:15
Well, it was so it surprised the hell out of us because, um and I mean, I'm not I'm not saying I don't I'm not saying this in any sort of way to disrespect anyone who is. I mean, I just I don't know if I was when we were when we were in the hard course in the first time. I heard the word M O was when someone was insulting someone for basically being the kind of person that was standing in front of everybody and being the most into it and trying to make it so, like this kind of look at me thing, you know, that's that's that's what that's what. That was my first experience with it. But really, where the word M O came from was, I think somebody wrote and I review or an article regarding Fugazi, I think, Wasn't it and or was it Was it was it for God's Ear? Was it red Spring? I can remember some. Somebody should word M. O. So I don't know. The memo thing is weird to me in the way just because it's I would imagine it means emotional. And so in. Most human emotions have been the driving force or launching pad for our all art and music since the beginning of the beginning. So it's not that that's not a new thing. I think I think I think that's a word to basically just try to describe something that is a more sort of just, um authentic or we're supposed to be a more authentic and, um, honest approach towards song arrangement or air sculpture that is, you know, is powerful but also can be overtly vulnerable at the same time.

Tom Mullen:   27:49
Do you wish that the word was never attached to the band?

William Goldsmith:   27:52
Oh, I mean, I don't know. It is what it is. I don't really think about it, you know? I mean, for me, it's just they're just songs. That's just it's songs, you know, To me, it's like, say something is M. O is like is like you know, their songs, their songs. It's it gets complicated because it's not. It's not really hard core. It's not metal. It's not, you know, whatever. We're hard write what? You know what I mean? But if they're just, they're songs is what they are, you know, it's just it's different. So, you know, people need to, you know, figure out a way to

Tom Mullen:   28:27
categorise. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, definitely.

William Goldsmith:   28:29
It is what it is. It is what it is. You know what I mean? It's like what? What m o I think means to some people is the thing that you and I are talking about, you know, I mean I mean, it's like that way to describe, like, something that is the music that you and I were just, you know, describing and so and that to look at it like that, then No, it's not a bad thing because it's ihsaa music with a, um, two people trying to approach music from a place of authenticity. That's what it's, you know, I guess, you know, to allow their humanity to come through, you know, honestly through the music, you know, not be and not be trying to put on a show. But just expressing what it is to be a human being retrospectively. What I will say is that what I don't like is how this sort of like the giggle factor that somehow it goes along with the M. O thing. It kind of be Littles or cheapens, you know, some music and our and our bands that that should not have that done to them.

Tom Mullen:   29:32
I love that you said that because I think it's the most marginalized word or genre, because if it's oh, well, it's good. But it's But it's Zemo like you. They're complimenting it as they make fun of it. Or as they say they want to like, uh, I'm not going to give it the full like like like, jokingly about pitchfork like again. Are they really gonna back then when they were when they were viewing stuff, I mean, they were belittling the word. And now it's as if it's the second coming of Christ and it's like, Well, where were you 15 years ago? What's what's the difference? And I think it It's so marginalized that people don't want, like, people do not want to have the word associated with them because that will happen. And I think it's really sad if there's anything I don't think m o sad. I think it's euphoric and I think music. But there's something sad about that, that the music can't get a shot because it has this fucking word put on it.

William Goldsmith:   30:31
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You and I are on the same page. It precisely. Yeah, Justin, Justin. Amen. Totally. Yeah, that's the thing. That's the thing is there's this like, other. There's just like this, this little elephant that doesn't really exist that was placed in the room, that is, You know, um, taking away from something that is important or like, uh, making light of something that is not like so

Tom Mullen:   30:57
after l l p two or the pink record. What were what were some of your thoughts. What did you think about where you like? Well, I'm gonna do something new. I mean, I know what happened, but I'm saying what was in your head of like, Well, fuck this thing just ended. We had all this going for us. All these people are getting into it.

William Goldsmith:   31:14
I had no idea on the last show that tour, um, at the black cat we played to show two twos. Two nights at the Black Hat. Second night. What was the lad? Was Sunday's last show Basically, And that was the last show of the tour. I was, uh, p cream Jack from rain. Like the sound of trains. Verbal assault, you know, amazing guitar player. Amazing human being amazing. Carpenter. Ah, he, um an amazing father. But, uh, he was sitting with me in the bar area and somebody put a folded napkin in front of me on the table and said, Dave girl, would you like you to call him? Had a phone number on there, and so I didn't know what I was gonna do, but then that had that happened, and so that sort of ended up immediately. Sort of leading from that last show into what was gonna happen next, which is what it is,

Tom Mullen:   32:03
right? The couple years of foods. And then after that, because you've you've talked about that plenty I think people need to talk about Is the fire theft

William Goldsmith:   32:12
Yeah, for what? Well, what was interesting. So I quit the Foo Fighters like we made the how it feels to be something on that we made rising tide and then broke up again. And then that's the fire theft thing. And I think the fire theft was It's probably frustrating for people. Understandably so. It's just like science A breaks is together, breaks up it together, breaks up again, is sort of sunny day, but not called Sunny Day. You know, it's like and has you know, the other three members, you know, like Nate and Jeremy die instead of, you know, So it's got to be really confused. I feel so bad for us being sold, you know, but there are reasons behind all of it, but it's all very long, very, very long stories.

Tom Mullen:   32:51
How it feels to be something on. I think there's a there's a there's a there's an energy in that record. Yeah, can you talk about that a little bit, Like, is there?

William Goldsmith:   32:58
Hey. Yeah. Now that Yeah, it was, Yeah. It was very inspired Record. Yeah, definitely. For sure. We were approaching that record. Were, like, you know, we're like, we're going to do exactly what we did before, which is have the music that is that's gonna come out of us at that time, be what it is, be what comes out. And so that's what came out. You know, it wasn't anything like the 1st 2 records, but we knew that was gonna happen. You know,

Tom Mullen:   33:26
someone told me if someone told me Diary was your never mind LP to is your spider land and how deals was your OK computer.

William Goldsmith:   33:34
Oh, well, I have no idea what to say to that, because those I don't think any. I don't think any. I don't think we've had made any record any of those records even touch those records, but, uh uh, okay, I guess. Hey, you know, uh yeah, Justin said how it feels. It's his OK, computer. There we go. Yeah, well, okay. All right. You know,

Tom Mullen:   33:59
I think if we're effort, if if we're talking about that record quickly think Pillars is when I want to bring up and the groove of that song and how it picks up. But it has this heaviness that in the drums that kind of keeps that going. Can you talk about that song or that That that that groove?

William Goldsmith:   34:18
Yeah. I mean, I guess I could talk about it, although on it's kind of hard to explain, like I don't know if I could Really? Well, no, it's just to me. It's kind of Ah ah, lot of the music is like a mystery to me. I don't know for all of us, like they just think they happened. It's not like a thing there wasn't. There's never a thought process like that is like, I'm going to do this like this. It's like it's just It just is I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. It's just this thing that comes from somewhere internally and then sometimes feels like partially externally. Uh, I mean, aside from like, externally, someone in the band, like, uh, I don't know and they just think they just sort of all sudden exist.

Tom Mullen:   35:07
So like going back to the pink album like if it's Jenna like deciding when to come in. Come in af after the break, That was That was something that you guys discussed or was it again? You were just jamming that one time and it felt right.

William Goldsmith:   35:20
Okay, so we're sure there's some discussion that is far. I mean, I think there was some discussion regarding that. Sometimes it was discussed. Other times it was like something that just happened. Like us basically, just like working through the part. Well, I mean, like working on that song. Like, I think there's just a point where we like stopped and Dan just kept going, you know? And then we're like, Oh, yeah, logically, best thing to do is go on, you know, and, you know, and come back in on that. So but yeah, that song, man. Yeah, I like I like that. Like that. So

Tom Mullen:   35:52
and then I thought to the when days days were golden and how that was sort of ending the set. And I remember, Remember the show in college, remember, there were signs up because you could win school North Carolina, and you could still smoke. And I remember there were signs up saying Please don't smoke. And Aisha had I wish I had a photo of it.

William Goldsmith:   36:11
We were the first band were that I knew of whatever that had a no smoking in the venue policy. And it's funny because I spoke and I think I even smoked con stage while we're playing the non sporting venues. Jos, I was kind of stuff for, uh, yeah, but I mean, I think it got to a point where it's like when you're playing night after night and these clubs in this environment, that's really smoky, you know, like, really, really smoke, right? I'm a lot of smoking. It really, really kind of gets to you after a while. Even if you smoke, it gets to you, you know what I mean? So

Tom Mullen:   36:44
I had smoking close to go to shows like I had a sweatshirt to be like, Well, this is the show. This is the sweatshirt. I used to go to shows because it's gonna stink.

William Goldsmith:   36:53
Mea Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's weird. It's like I all oftentimes forget that you used to be able to smoke places like, you know, but yeah, yeah, yeah, we did. We had a non smoking rule and what's crazy as people didn't smoke, Not one time,

Tom Mullen:   37:09
even even tobacco road. I mean, you played in North Carolina Tobacco Road, and we abided by that because you asked,

William Goldsmith:   37:17
Correct? Yeah, that blew me away. That totally blew me away. I was like, Well, this is crazy, you know that I was like, uh huh. So, you know, But, um yeah, but I don't smoke onstage during shows anymore because there's no not enough time in between songs, but with Sonny, there was woo. Uh, actually, I think by that time they finally started using stage 200. Thank God. Yeah, but man diary days and help and pink Or you know that that stuff from between diary and the pink record man being Yeah. Oh, God, So hard. It was brutal. And I was like, Wait a minute there. State yours where you can have it. You can do and it's

Tom Mullen:   38:04
quiet. You guys crazy? They're only 80 bucks, like, just get

William Goldsmith:   38:09
well, yeah, that's true.

Tom Mullen:   38:12
The rising tide stuff that I think was interesting too, because, you know, having the sub pop days and then having this sort of new trial with time, bomb and aristo. Um, you know what? Again? It didn't work out, you know, Because of

William Goldsmith:   38:33
Yeah, Yeah, it didn't work out because Yeah, because Aristide dropped time bomb, right as we were finishing the record there. Like Okay, cool. We're not gonna be able to do anything for you, but Ah, good record.

Tom Mullen:   38:44
You know what? Did that feel like the like again? In that moment?

William Goldsmith:   38:47
It was really frustrating because because I had had a bad feeling when we were going to sign to time. Mom and I was like, You guys, I've got a bad feeling about this. Something. We should do this. And then I was outvoted. So they were like, we signed you sign. So I signed. And then, you know, im whether my bad feeling was accurate or whether it just so happened then something it didn't work out. So yes. Oh, but then way toured anyway, but, you know, didn't have any support. But which word, anyway? So,

Tom Mullen:   39:15
yeah. Was there any feeling that, like, this is going somewhere or

William Goldsmith:   39:20
No, no, no. It was like putting out an invisible record. Wow. That's what it felt like. It was like there, you know, it felt like for a long time there were most people had no idea that there was a force on the record. But people come to the shows that somehow managed to, I don't know, we somehow were able to, like, go out and tour. And there were there were people that somehow did manage to hear the record. And I mean, you know, we did do some press and some things, but I'm I think that God, do we even have a management at the time we did, Did we? I can't remember trying to. Yeah, so yeah. And I don't even know how any any of that really got really set up, you know, like Pizza Burger did what he could. He worked a time bomb, and he started. He did what he could, But you knew that there was kind of know much that he could do, you know what I mean? So, yeah, but it was It was like it was like, uh, it was like a record kind of didn't exist. And it feels like it's taken years for people all sudden realized that that record existed. So

Tom Mullen:   40:23
And then after that, then you guys decided tow do the fire theft. Correct.

William Goldsmith:   40:28
Yeah. So we started recording the fire theft record the day after 9 11 Happened like it was literally, like, the very next day. I mean, it was just just so happened. That's what we're scheduled to start. Brad was, you know, up here. And that was a three year long process. Wow. Partially, because, well, I'm making that record guy. Brad had to go and make like, two other records while we were making our records. So he was like, Okay, stand by and they need You have to go make a record and come back. So? So it was drawn out. It took a long time, anyway, Was that record was an interesting process, but a, uh but it took three years because we had to stop a couple times and then start again.

Tom Mullen:   41:10
What were you doing during that time? Otherwise, for you, we working and other things were you were you trying to play with other folks?

William Goldsmith:   41:18
I was doing? I was doing some playing with Billy Dolan, and then the rest of my time went into, like, martial arts training all the time, like every now. So, yeah, that was kind of like became my obsession at the time, you know, and I was that. So at that time, I was basically in the process of trying to turn to, um, two would become a better person, pulled my head out of my ass. You know, um, take a hard look at myself. Stop drinking, um, and try to reverse some of the damage that I had done through some relatively hard self destructive living. So So yeah. And then I had also done a lot of damage to my body, just the way I played and how hard I played. And without having any sort of proper technique, I I had to do a lot of I had to repair a lot of damage from a lot of different things. So I did also martial arts training, Rolfing A lot of Rafi like like, 3000 sessions over, like, eight years. But it ended up being, but had to kind of get had to get rebuilt, sort of. So yeah, so on dumb. Yeah. So

Tom Mullen:   42:28
how did that feel? Making that decision to make yourself feel better?

William Goldsmith:   42:31
I was interested in doing martial arts, So one thing kind of led to another. It wasn't like I'm gonna quit drinking. It was like I came to realize that the reason why I drank the way I did was because I had horrible panic disorder and our anxiety. So the old the way I was medicating it was to drink. And so, like, two or three beers in you feel free from, like, feeling like someone's choking you or your lungs, you're gonna collapse or whatever. And then, of course, so then you keep drinking. Next thing you know, you're blocked out. Next day you wake up and you've done something really stupid. But so martial arts training is what basically took helped with the anxiety on what's the anxiety? Once I were dealt with the anxiety issue, the drinking just faded away, just disappeared. It was like I wasn't like I had to try to quit. It just sort of went away. So uh so, yeah, so I'm not like, sober guy is my fact, I want to drink. I know I'm like, I wish that I but I just I lost the taste for it. I've even tried to drink and then immediately makes me feel like crap. I just don't feel that I don't feel that any sort of euphoria. It goes straight to feeling like crap. So I don't know if there's, like, a chemical makeup, your body chemistry thing that changed. I don't know, But, uh, so But, I mean, it felt ah, you know, I mean, it was that I was drinking like 12 ounces of wheat grass a day, four shots, every, um, you know, I had really lived kind of hard. So I had to basically go to some serious extremes to, like, completely clean my digestive system to know and, you know, like change. You give yourself a blood transfusion with transfusion with reed grass. That's essentially what you're doing with that stuff. It's the closest thing you can come to actually drinking blood. That sounds really gnarly, but I mean, that's that's basically what it iss. So, um,

Tom Mullen:   44:18
and that was around the mid two thousand's.

William Goldsmith:   44:20
Okay, I remember, because we when fire theft toured, I had I was given this training regiment that I had to do to the least three days a week while I was on the road, so I had to figure out a way to like find Go find a place to train between sound check. And the show at least is a week and stuff like that. So, you know, But I was really committed to it, because it because it made me feel just it made me feel better. It made me feel I wasn't like into it. It wasn't into it to, like, learn how to, like fight. It was more like learning how to like, um uh, get control of your mind, your thoughts, you know, and things like that. And it helped with playing a little bit. That was like, the beginning of me, sort of me changing my playing was that that's that. But just trying to learn how to relax, learn how to breathe, and, um And then, um And then I spent many years trying to change my approach towards where I played my bass drum, which was what really changed. Really changed everything. So yeah, so, yeah, but now that's really difficult to do. I change my approach to playing the bass drum, and it's not something that it took me three years to be able to do it. So it requires the base the you can't have a pedal that's very quick and easy to play. There has to be I have a weight on, you know, in the end of you know, it's gotta be really, really heavy, and then you can't planet. You gotta bounce it every single time. But then you have to have everything set up in the basement where it sounds like you know, you have to be. It's a delicate process because you don't want to sound like a blowing still gotta have, you know, punch to it. But it's treating it like a drum, as opposed to something that you just well, just throw pillows in it and, you know, and and, you know, make it go. Book on the microphone will do the rest. You know, it's like, but now I now I can't go back now. I can't play the other way, so it's cool to be able to do it both ways, but I don't think I could do the other way now, right? It's planned with a band called Kiku I Qu and then also with bills, alone for a bit, and then and then a bunch of people died and you know I won't get too into it. But, um, that was really hard for me. No one. My brother shot himself in the head. I I kind of had a meltdown. And I didn't play for a year. I just I and I stopped doing martial arts. I stopped doing everything. I just completely shut down. And, uh, and then, uh, then I was approached by Jordan Young and and Justin Swartz and asked if I want to start a band and we started band called Brolly Backs and we worked on that for about four years, and that was that. That was, um, some of the most inspired stuff I've ever been involved with. And so we were recording a record. And then while we were recording that record, um, I got worried about doing the sunny day reunion, and so that put that on hold. And so then when did the sunny day reunion and then inside to decide to make a record. So then we go down to 606 track a record and then, ah, you know, track songs for the record and the the the foundation. You know, the instrumental tracks and, uh, and then ah, was supposed to receive a call. I remember. I remember what the date was. But the following day I talked to Jeremy Nathan. They said we're gonna have a ban on meeting a phone meeting tomorrow. Like 3 30 for regarding finishing the record. And then the phone never rang and never, ever ran again after that. Never heard anything just disappeared. And ah, I just I was I was confused. And then because during the break from probably Banks doing to do the sunny day stuff, that kind of took its toll in that band and bass player had to move to Guam. Guitar player. Quit saying I didn't want to sing anymore. So I had to records that I'd done with no vote. They were sitting there that were done, that I worked on that with no vocals that were gonna be so they just left. And so that was a little bit distant chanting that kind of bummed me out and took the wind out of my sails. And it is what it is, you know? I mean, I didn't understand exactly what went down. I've got a better understanding of why the scientific record didn't get finished. but I don't want to speak for other people. I was so I was so kind of devastated by that by both things like just being a left that I almost kind of well, like with scientists stuff. I just tried to shut it off. I just, like, had I had to sort of almost pretend like it didn't. I never existed. And then I like about maybe five or six years down down the line, um, in, like, 2016 I went and I listened to the rough tracks, and I was like, Fuck, I was like, Dude, I was just like, man, how come we didn't do this record? Um, anyway, and I I would, Matt, and, you know, I don't know. There might be some people that are aware that I kind of expressed my frustrations here and there. You're not in the best way, but, you know, I'm a human being, so, um and ah, but it is what it is. And I just basically come to just sort of accept the fact that that's that and and I let it go, You know, that's all I could do, you know? But I had let it go, But I didn't let it go. What I did is I just blocked it out. I just I just shut it off. And I didn't, you know, deal with it. And then it hit me because I went. I listen to the songs totally, objectively. Six years later, I was like, shit while we really screwed up by not doing this, you know? And I got not really upset me and, uh, and I reacted. And that's that, you know? But now I've So I reacted. It hit me. Now I've processed it. No, I let it go, you know?

Tom Mullen:   50:01
Yeah. Why do you think so? Needed real estate Wasn't more popular.

William Goldsmith:   50:04
Well, I mean, you know, for the for the 1st 2 records, we refused to do interviews and refused to play California. I don't know. So I don't know. I have no idea. Uh, I don't know. I mean, maybe because we're together and then broke up together and broke up, all

Tom Mullen:   50:18
right? Just kind of It wasn't. It wasn't consistent.

William Goldsmith:   50:21
Well, I mean, for me, I'm more surprised that sunny day real estate is popular at all. I like I'm surprised that there, you know, to me. I'm always like, amazed that there's, like, you know, of any sort of substantial amount of people there from there with the band, because, uh, I mean, uh, a success in the music industry is a business deal. It's not like because you're special. It's because somebody decides to put X amount of money into shoving you or your music in front of everybody's face and on to varying degrees and not depends on the amount of money they're willing to put behind you. So I mean, it's not some sort of, like, magic thing. It's It's literally it's just money pay off thing, you know. It's just like it's basically buying your your way into people's, you know, consciousness. So you know, And so I think maybe, son it is. And it isn't more popular because nobody was willing to put, like, $1.7 million into having us played at gas stations, you know? Well, you know, so you know what I mean. So I'm more I'm more surprised that Sunday was was, you know, But I mean, then you look at a band like forgot, see where things like Well, they're popular because they fucking worked their ass off, you know, and we're committed and they made great music, and they treated the people that came to see them play with respect and they never ripped him off. So that's that's and that's it. That's an approach that, you know, it's not. It's not an easy approach, but, uh, but it's the but the fucking damn fucking great approach and respectable and will go down in history as the greatest approach. That's a very yeah, forgot. He changed everything. People say your change things. I'm like, No forgot cheese. Nirvana was great. I love Nirvana. But, I mean, what changed things as far as Nirvana's concerned is, like, Nirvana got the millions of dollars put behind him, you know? And they were a good band. They were a really great band, you know, with, like, this really sophisticated approach towards, um uh, nursery rhymes. You know what I mean? Essentially. And I don't have a bad way. I mean, like, you know, like, song writing, writing a really great simple song is very, very challenging thing, you know? Especially like a really great song. So So I mean, you know, you know, they were amazing so, but, you know, so they've changed things just in different ways.

Tom Mullen:   52:48
But Fugazi for me was this ethos. You know, I'm not going to get on MTV, but I can put on a show.

William Goldsmith:   52:54
A show? Yeah, but as far as like, as far as getting, like doing what they did, where you have to write, like, amazing music number one, Number two, you have to Ah, you have to work your ass off. You know, totally. You have to be willing to do those things. So but yeah, I agree. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I made it. So yet? Yes, you can do it, you know, But it's hard work.

Tom Mullen:   53:15
Yeah, it's a lot of hard work, I think, to having, like you mentioned earlier, having those two records and then having having lost. And I think loss is something that I think unless it happened, unless it happens to you, it's it's hard to experience or learn from. Did you think about moments like were you like thinking about Maura about being appreciative of what was happening in the moment after those times, like not necessarily from a specific example, but like having those musical moments or doing music now, you know, And in being like, you know what, this eye, Because I had, you know, when I had lost I want to go back to those times where you want to talk to them or you want to ask them those questions again, and you can't. So now it's like, Well, now I'm gonna do it with everyone else. It's around.

William Goldsmith:   54:03
Yeah. I mean, I think I understand what you're asking is for me now. I I I appreciate playing. I appreciate now and appreciate the people that I'm playing with now and appreciate the music that I'm doing now more than I've ever done so before. And I'm or able to now, like, I'm I'm ah. I mean, you know, I'm not a kid with his head up his ass anymore, you know? I mean, I'm wasn't like, a horrible person, but I mean, I was stupid kit in a lot of ways. And I mean, you know, and I was also very, very self destructive. Um, you know what I mean. And, uh, had a horribly low self esteem. And, you know, if I didn't have a good show, I would go to this horrible, horrible, dark place that it was very difficult to get out of. Now that doesn't happen now. It's just like things kind of roll off my back more. And now it's about now It's about like, um, appreciating, being able to play or playing again. Number one. Number two. Appreciating. Having being being fortunate Thio enoughto have, uh, the opportunity to have these authentic, spiritually interactions with people I'm playing with now. And it's and it's completely pure. Absolutely Eagle Lis collaboration. You know what I mean? And that's such that I have been. My appreciation for that is, I can't even put it into words. And so it's about that, and it's about our kids. That's what it's really about right now.

Tom Mullen:   55:33
I think you talked about this before another, an inter interviewer that I'd listen to her read. It was like you'd walked away for this many years and processing those things, and I think family. And, you know, um, I think an amazing story that you've talked about, kind of like how you met Justin. Can you

William Goldsmith:   55:51
tell that story? So I mean, I walked. I didn't just walk away from playing. I couldn't even listen to music. Like here. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I I the only way I could describe as I can. I describe it as musical PTSD. Wow. You know, I couldn't I couldn't I didn't want to listen to music. I didn't want to talk about music. I didn't wanna have anything to do with it. I just I just had to shut it off because of my listening music. I it would hurt because I because there was a part of me that I knew that I that I did want there was a part of me that didn't want to play. But I just, uh but but didn't. But I would just walked away. I was just like, you know, all it's just brought me is nothing but just, you know, knives in the back and, you know, are just like rugs pulled out from under my feet. You know, we're, like, really, really hard work, and then just being left in a ditch, you know? I mean, it's like, or so it felt like, you know, and and ah, in So yeah, I mean, I just I couldn't even listen to music. And then on Justin had Ah, so I tell the story and I have the beginning of it. Incorrect sometimes. Justine. Well, every time I so so Justin had contacted my wife on Facebook and basically said, Hey, you were married. William Goldsmith. Will you tell him that I learned how to play drums or tried to learn how to play drums by trying to dissect Song seven and and then also just say that, you know, sunny day real estate had was when inspiration for me and tell him, Hey, you know, thank you. But then oh yeah, that's right. And then what? She was like following stuff that you were doing. And then she was saying, Hey, look, they're practicing and I listened. I said, Hey, tell him I said The drum sound good And she said, William Gholston says the drums are good, Chenery said, You know, you should look at what this guy's doing. Ah, he teaches music to Children. He teaches music to autistic Children. Ah, he has a band with his kids, and Ah, and his son is also autistic. And so are our four year old son. Logan was diagnosed with autism, and so, uh, I was in the process of trying to get wrap my head around it and understand it, you know? And I was kind of flying blind and ah, so I kind of wanted copy after Justin's homework and, uh, so to speak, you know, learn. I want to learn from him. And then in the process of of doing that, I Then I heard his band pigs, now with his kids and and and that's what hit me really hard. I was like, Man, what am I doing? I was like, Not only not only will I not listening music, not playing music, I'm not I'm not. I'm not like bringing music into my Children's lives. In a way, I'm I'm not. Not intentionally but almost depriving them of it, because it's not not. It's not even on my radar. And I saw I saw what what Justin was doing. Sorry. It's okay. Yeah. So I saw what he was doing, and I was like, Man, I need to play music. I need to bring music to the lives of my Children. I need to I need to do this again, you know? So then the story gets kind of funny. It's like sorry about that. I just, uh why are you apologizing? Well, because, you know, shit, um,

Tom Mullen:   59:30
I think it's absolutely beautiful that you met someone that's working with someone with a similar, Like your son also is autistic. He's teaching drop your drummer like it's supposed to happen. This was supposed to

William Goldsmith:   59:41
have, you know, I I agree. And so I guess that's why I get emotional body, because it hit me like a like a bolt of lightning. And And so then So then I contacted Justin and, uh, Ana, it was funny. I was like, Do you know, uh, I went over to his house and I sat in and I played. I played with him and his 11 year old daughter double drums. So she was on drums. I was on drums, and that was my first time sitting down playing drums for nine years. Wow. We're sitting down and sitting in with with those two. And it was really fun. And it was a vision. She was the boss man. She was running the show. I was just like, you know, I'm following you, you know, you lied and, uh and, uh, then I and then I contacted Justine and I was like, Man, you know, be kind of cool, like have, like, two drummer thing with pig's snout like me backing up with what you know she's doing Or if, like, Lucien, you know, sometimes his son would play drums are, like, you know, double drum thing and picks out and he goes, Yeah, that might be cool. And then, uh, he d approached Dahlia about it, and I was like, No, it's a family band. She's like It's family band. No offense towards him. But it's a family band and I obviously had to respect that, and I still do so But we jam together and and she seemed to have a good time. So I think maybe someday there might be hope, but But, like I said before, until that day comes, we started Justin. Justin sort of started. Come on over and like kicking me like a horse. You know, like every you know, every now and again and you'll be like such a drums up. Sit down. You know, come over to my house, plays the drums. Oh, I'm gonna come over there, set up your drums. I'm gonna bring my amp and then he brought a nap and I was like, Okay, next time we'll bring a big ramp. Is there wasn't quite loud enough. But, uh, so and then we just started playing every now and again every now and again became more often and then became a CZ often as possible. And then when I saw I saw, I wouldn't saw his. His other band, they're called Blind Guides and Brian Gorder is the bass player. That band and I was like, Holy shit, I was like, Dude, I was like, Okay, so I need to jam with that guy. I don't need to start a base. And you started playing with that bass player somehow, and I went up to Brown's like not sure yet, but it's somehow I'm starting to play again and that somehow, some day, uh, I don't want to do a band with you. I think I'd probably be a good idea. I really want to play with you. So then I ended up. Actually, just they were kind enough to start a new band with Brian and Justin with me playing drums, and so they still have the other band. But now they have a new band with me. So very nice of them to do that. So but yeah, so then when? And then we've just been writing and writing and playing. We just that we've been planned shows and we've been, like, recording stuff just here, you know. And, uh, yeah, and that's what's happening

Tom Mullen:   1:2:44
on the band's called Assertion.

William Goldsmith:   1:2:46
Assertion. Yeah, because I think that's what we all agreed that we need to work on.

Tom Mullen:   1:2:49
I think it's beautiful that you're playing. I think that's beautiful, that this happened and there's music and it's funny where it where this. It's funny what music does, like sometimes negative. Sometimes it's it's there, Um, and it pulls you out of things. And I think for you to be doing this now, like, what does it feel like now?

William Goldsmith:   1:3:15
I just feel fortunate to be able to play again. Just fortunate. I feel more than anything I feel really fortunate to be able to play with, choose to such amazing, amazing human beings is Brian and Gelson and uh oh, yeah, I just feel lucky that that I was able to do that,

Tom Mullen:   1:3:37
and then I think that was either of Instagram live or was a Facebook live Jeremy had come over to jam.

William Goldsmith:   1:3:44
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, He came over. That was fun.

Tom Mullen:   1:3:47
When was that? I feel like that was like, I couldn't

William Goldsmith:   1:3:50
really wants that. Justin. That was, like what, Like maybe 56 months ago? I guess so, Yeah. Time is weird for me, but August esque August issue. Yeah, around there? Yeah. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah, he came over. And, uh, um, why'd you come over? Oh, yeah. He came over to give me to bring me some fire theft vinyl and ah, get a couple of those and then ah, and then, Ah, we're, like, one jam. I was like, Sure, so, you know, So you just grab the base and yeah, that was fun. And actually, we worked on the lamb to the slaughter, pulls a knife a little bit, uh, and he sat in while we were working on it, you know, just for fun, right? Didn't he? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We did play that. Yeah. And when it's unfair, when it wasn't, It's so that song was weird. That song was one of those things where, um Justin, sort of we're about to start practicing. And Justin started playing, uh, the main riff, and then he stopped. And we're like, Okay, let's go. No one, uh, go back. What was that? And then he starts playing it. I came in and then we started playing it. It went through and it went to the next change. And then the song went from beginning to end arrangement wise the way it is now, that first time. So it was one of those things where released literally started playing it, and it wrote itself. Justin and I are both, like, very much so aware of, um uh, how difficult it can become. T trust people after you've had What is it about impasse that attracts sociopaths. Do you know why that's that happens? I don't know, but that seems to happen. Is there, Justin? I have that in common. We both have long sort of history of allowing people in that, you know that, you know, would, you know, hug you was put a knife in your back the same time and be and be like and accidentally keep doing it again and again, to the point where you're like, OK, so me and the human beings thing just doesn't work out so well. So I'm gonna just and that's more that it's kind of another reason why I mean, I literally for those nine years, I didn't know I not only stop playing music, I actually stopped speaking with people at all. I didn't talk to anyone. I mean, I just The only the only people I talk to you was my wife and then our Children when they were born, and then, uh, and her parents when I saw him.

Tom Mullen:   1:6:15
Wow. And that's it. When things happen again, or when things don't go right, Do you feel that you can handle it better now and no.

William Goldsmith:   1:6:24
So we have, like, assertion now and as the band names, So it's like a weird shield or totem. So we didn't It's not gonna be a problem, Noah. Ah, you know, I I I don't I want to say yes, but at the same time, it's like I'm I am extraordinarily careful. I not only do I not really interact with very many people, but I actually just don't have the time to now it's like we have to fight to try to get time to practice. But aside from that, it's like, you know, I've got three kids and I mean, there's people have more kids, but for me, it's like it's just non stop. Just like Okay, you know, you need this. Okay, I gotta go. Number take you here. You know, there is a much room for, you know, there there isn't any room for anybody. Just, like slip through any kind of cracks. There are no cracks. It's like there's like, you know, bang was like time taken by Children. The band isn't a separate thing from my family. It's there, they're integrated. Which is really cool. Yeah. I mean, my kids, they you know, they you know, Justin is he's another member of the family. Brian's another member of the family as far as they're concerned. I mean, I just feel fortunate to do you have those dynamics and have them integrated with the family and music and have it all come together. So yeah, and I really owe it to my wife Channa reefer saying, Hey, you should look at what this guy's doing. You know? That's goods. And then I looked, and it's a good thing I looked, so I kind of bought it for a minute. I was like, No, where you may and I were going to do what? I want to look at anything and then, you know, I did, then changed everything. It was hard at first because then I made me really look at myself in regret, the lack of music. But at the same time, it is what it is. And it took the nine years. I mean, I had to get I had to somehow get back to a point where I just I wanted I desired, you know, music to play music again. I had to really, really want to do

Tom Mullen:   1:8:23
it. You know, I had to really want to play, to start playing again. So that's and looking at what Justin was doing. And especially especially seeing I don't know if you've ever heard pigs down his band with kids, but I highly recommend Ah, good. Just a good introduction would be a song called The Tar Trap. Bye picks. Now you go on YouTube. There's a really great video, man. It's really that song. Writing is amazing. It's just amazing. It's an amazing song, and it hits you, you know. And, uh so, yeah, it was that that really made me made me want to play again.